Which is Truly Orthodox: NFP or Contraceptives?

[Cyprian]

Contraception (doesn't matter which method) has never been acceptable in the Orthodox Church. Therefore, I see it as a dogmatic issue.

[Matthew]

I think even Natural Family Planning is not right. Contraceptives are way off the scale as far as EVER being acceptable.
A TOTAL disaster.

What do you recommend, then, as being the best manner of family planning?

[Maria]

I think even Natural Family Planning is not right. Contraceptives are way off the scale as far as EVER being acceptable.
A TOTAL disaster.

What do you recommend, then, as being the best manner of family planning?

This is truly a matter between the couple and their priest.

I have known couples who after bearing five to six children or more sought the advice of their spiritual fathers. Ultimately, by that time in their lives they could choose to live in total abstinence but that took maturity and a very devout prayer life. Actually, wanting to go to Church and receive Holy Communion on feast days, working long hours gardening, raising livestock, dealing with piles of laundry, ironing, sewing, and cooking, but still finding time for morning, noon, afternoon, and evening prayers disposed them to want to live the angelic life without the benefit of monastery walls. This is possible, and even in Catholicism I met couples in the Third Orders who lived devout lives. By the way, I was in the Third Order as a Catholic before coming to Orthodoxy, and that lifestyle disposed me to accept the rigors of Orthodoxy.

[Matthew]

Thank you Maria.

I wonder, what does Orthodoxy think about having "third orders"? not in the sense that we would start having them, but what is the Orthodox response, or evaluation of, to the RC practice of having them?

[Maria]

Thank you Maria.

I wonder, what does Orthodoxy think about having "third orders"? not in the sense that we would start having them, but what is the Orthodox response, or evaluation of, to the RC practice of having them?

The Antiochians have a Third Order of St. Benedict in their Western Rite Orthodoxy. They have taken the rule of St. Benedict and live a monastic life outside the monastery.

Actually, as Christians, we are all called to live a holy life. Having a Third Order can be a source of pride.

However, having a sisterhood or a brotherhood in the parish that is dedicated to the spiritual life as well as helping the parish would be very beneficial. In some parishes, the "sisterhood" has been expanded to include men, along with a name change.
While it is not good to exclude the husbands of wives involved in the sisterhood, some sisterhoods have become known for their gossip and bickering. What man would want to join them? It is difficult. Thus, the bylaws and regulations concerning such a group need to be carefully drawn.

This is why Third Orders were established with spiritual guidelines taken from the Rule of St. Benedict (Benedictine Oblates) or the Rule of St. Augustine (Dominican Tertiaries), so that men and women involved in such a group would have truly spiritual conversations and avoid gossip. Within Catholicism, such Third Orders often helped prepare young members for monastic life, a holy married life, or even the priesthood.

Back on topic: Many of these Third Orders encourage the men and women to live a virginal life after menopause and some even take the three vows of Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience, and live a truly monastic life outside the walls.

Regarding not having connubial relations in married life after menopause, there is this post in paradosis from the notorious Fr. Ambrose of New Zealand:

• > If the Holy Fathers must be taken as infallible authorities in all matters then

  1. Those who wrote on connubial matters utterly forbade any sex which is
  a) undertaken without the intent to conceive and
  b) is unable to conceive a child.
  The notable exception to the patristic consensus is Saint John Chrysostom who declares the primary purpose is not the conception of children (he thinks the world is sufficiently populated) but the more important strengthening of love between husband and wife.

  1. The Orthodox must cease from taking out loans and from giving them. Usury in other words.

[Barbara]

I think the concept of "family planning" sounds awful. It shows lack of faith in God and
wanting complete CONTROL by humans. That is the usual problem which leads to serious trouble
Same argument is used by those who have abortions.
They toss off arguments like "Oh it was not convenient, I had to finish up my year at school first
before I could consider a child."

Only human considerations prevail in most Western-educated-populations.

Hence I think we have to be shrewder and ask what is the will of God in each and every individual situation.
I see it as between the husband and the wife, because the priest may not know them well and give the wrong advice.
That's my opinion, don't persecute me.

Is that Fr Ambrose [Mooney] from New Zealand who wrote that ?

I surely agree about the usury - whatever happened to THAT precept ? Seems to have fallen by the wayside. I hate the idea of
loans, mortgages, etc. The whole exonomy is based on this greed.

[Matthew]

Thank you Maria.

I wonder, what does Orthodoxy think about having "third orders"? not in the sense that we would start having them, but what is the Orthodox response, or evaluation of, to the RC practice of having them?

The Antiochians have a Third Order of St. Benedict in their Western Rite Orthodoxy. They have taken the rule of St. Benedict and live a monastic life outside the monastery.

Actually, as Christians, we are all called to live a holy life. Having a Third Order can be a source of pride.

However, having a sisterhood or a brotherhood in the parish that is dedicated to the spiritual life as well as helping the parish would be very beneficial. In some parishes, the "sisterhood" has been expanded to include men, along with a name change.
While it is not good to exclude the husbands of wives involved in the sisterhood, some sisterhoods have become known for their gossip and bickering. What man would want to join them? It is difficult. Thus, the bylaws and regulations concerning such a group need to be carefully drawn.

This is why Third Orders were established with spiritual guidelines taken from the Rule of St. Benedict (Benedictine Oblates) or the Rule of St. Augustine (Dominican Tertiaries), so that men and women involved in such a group would have truly spiritual conversations and avoid gossip. Within Catholicism, such Third Orders often helped prepare young members for monastic life, a holy married life, or even the priesthood.

Back on topic: Many of these Third Orders encourage the men and women to live a virginal life after menopause and some even take the three vows of Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience, and live a truly monastic life outside the walls.

Regarding not having connubial relations in married life after menopause, there is this post in paradosis from the notorious Fr. Ambrose of New Zealand:

• > If the Holy Fathers must be taken as infallible authorities in all matters then

  1. Those who wrote on connubial matters utterly forbade any sex which is
  a) undertaken without the intent to conceive and
  b) is unable to conceive a child.
  The notable exception to the patristic consensus is Saint John Chrysostom who declares the primary purpose is not the conception of children (he thinks the world is sufficiently populated) but the more important strengthening of love between husband and wife.

  1. The Orthodox must cease from taking out loans and from giving them. Usury in other words.

Seems like the idea of 3rd orders are rather problematic to me. Perhaps that is why we don't have them. We simply hold to the general principle in Orthodoxy that the monastics are a light for the layfolk. Hence we are always encouraged to emulate them as much as our station in life will allow us.