A Question that caused a Crisis.

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Pravoslavnik
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Theodicy

Post by Pravoslavnik »

What Eucherius has posed, in essence, is the "problem of evil," or theodicy. How can an omnipotent, omniscient, just God permit evil in our world--such as the terrible suffering of an innocent child? This question caused me to stumble greatly in my youth, many years before I discovered the true Church of the Orthodox. The answer to the question is simple, but profound.

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  The Triune God saw that it was good to create a cosmos of beings in His own image and likeness, capable of exercising rational and creative capacities in freedom.  He did not choose to create a cosmos of automatons, robots who would always obey His perfect will.  Both the bodiless hosts (angels) and man were created with freedom of the will.  This freedom was good in the sight of God, but also presented opportunities for the bodiless hosts, and man, to sin.  Evil in the world arises from sin on the part of both men and bodiless hosts who have fallen from grace (i.e., demons.)  There is also so-called natural "evil" (earthquakes, etc.) arising from processes inherent in the physical properties of the created cosmos, which can be influenced by spiritual forces if God so wills. Christ God, for example, was able to calm the Sea of Tiberias, and taught that even man "could move mountains" through faith.

     With regard to the murdered child, recall the teaching of Christ God: "Offenses will come into the world, but woe to him by whom the offense comes!"  Christ also said of those who abuse children, "It would be better for that man if a millstone were tied around his neck and he were cast into the sea...."
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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Cyprian,

So you don't have a canon to post?

You have received the gift of Holy Baptism yourself, correct? So what concern is it of yours, with regards to speculating about other people's personal situation?

I get it from my god-father. It's a concern for someone who is half way there, but seems to express himself as someone who is fully committed. And the question is genuine because I did wonder what would happen. My god-daughter's daughter has converted and is a catechumen and I wonder what happens to a soul if he or she dies before baptism. If you want to open a new thread, then it would be quite beneficial. But, if you do, try to leave out the arrogance. It's quite ugly and unbecoming and indicates an inferior complex.

It is good to mind our own affairs, and not be busybodies, speaking things which we ought not.

Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe you can explain it to Katia, Miss Budinski. But, my concern was genuine.

Last edited by joasia on Mon 24 March 2008 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

Ekaterina
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Post by Ekaterina »

Joasia:
It's Mrs Budinski and there is a saying about it taking one to know one...
If I had known you meant this to be your private thread I wouldn't have bothered.....

Maybe you can convince Craig to finally get dunked once and for all....

Katya

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Katia,

I think I misread your post. Forgive me for my mis-understanding.

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

Evfimy

Post by Evfimy »

Helen, I have very little knowledge. Things and sources I post come from a book. I don't know anything.

Regarding unbaptized babies, I am not sure on the Orthodox teaching on this.

I believe Catholics teach that an unbaptized baby will not experience the beautific vision of God. But they will go to Limbo, a place of natural peace and joy.

I personally believe God removes some people from life early if He knows they have no potential of ever converting to Him. And also their deaths might help the spiritual development of other people, such as their families, etc.

My own mother's death awoke me to the realization of how fleeting everything in this world is.

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Jean-Serge
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Post by Jean-Serge »

Evfimy wrote:

I believe Catholics teach that an unbaptized baby will not experience the beautific vision of God. But they will go to Limbo, a place of natural peace and joy.

Just a word on this : the papists under Benedict XVI have renounced to the belief in the limbo... which shows how misled they are. During centuries, they taught the limbo exists and now, they do not exist. Probably one more proof of infallibility... :lol:

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

Evfimy

Post by Evfimy »

I don't think they ever said ex cathedra (from the chair) in an "infallible" context, that Limbo exists. So it does not affect the doctrine of infallibility.

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