Video of Bishop Daniel

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Helen
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Post by Helen »

What bothers me now is the widespread private and even public denial of KGB activity in the ROCOR-MP by nominal Orthodox Christians.

I don't think it's denial, just a different approach to yours. A different focus. Different priorities in life. For me personally, life can be very messy, and it's hard enough trying to figure out your own salvation, let alone focusing on possible KGB activity in ROCOR-MP and half way around the world to boot.

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Helen
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Post by Helen »

It is sad that the illogic, the violent and instant reversals of position, and mysterious happenings in general within ROCOR in the last decade can even provide grist for speculation.

I don't deny that a lot of dubious stuff has occured in ROCOR-MP (as do many others within ROCOR-MP), but as far as I've heard Bishop Daniel is a hierarch worthy of much respect, both for his life's work and his spiritual life. It's very easy to judge a hierach or clergy from the living room couch when we don't know what difficulties or complexities that person has to face in their life. We don't know if we would act better in the given situation - and in fact we could act worse. So I think it is better to be careful in judging a hierach who has been ordained by God, especially if we only know about him second hand. But who knows, maybe you guys know first-hand?

I think it is sad when spiritual people eg. Elder Joseph the Hesychast, Fr.Seraphim Rose, etc, are 'written off' because these people did not belong to the 'correct' church, or profess the 'correct' ecclessiology. An individual's whole spiritual struggle is considered void in a split second by someone making a secondhand negative sweeping statement pronounced from the living room couch.

Pravoslavnik
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Judging Bishop Daniel

Post by Pravoslavnik »

Helen,

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  I do not presume to judge ROCOR Bishop Daniel, or to know what is really happening to him now.  I admired his courageous statement of opposition to ROCOR unification with the MP prior to the All Diaspora Conference in 2006.  I am, frankly, puzzled by his recent conflicting statements about the ROCOR-MP, and the ROCOR video in which he reads a prepared statement with obvious difficulty.  The whole thing reminds me of the conflicting statements issued by Patriarch St. Tikhon after he was brought under the control of the NKVD (KGB) in 1920.  Surely, we must exercise some measure of discernment when we are presented with such self-contradictory public statements by a hierarch of the Church, especially knowing the history of the KGB infiltration and control of the MP during the past century, as documented in the scholarly historical text, [i]The Sword and the Shield[/i].
scwaterfowl

Post by scwaterfowl »

Pravo,
Just perhaps you are puzzled because you can not understand that a bishop--or anyone--could have been mis-led by all the BS and lies against the MP. There are many that have changed their minds about the recent re-unification once they've gotten past this petty, foolish, internet propaganda.
I've posted it here before; seems to me the real Stalinists/KGB/atheists are the ones making the most noise against the MP. There is no doubt that the political and religious climate in Russia has changed and I'm sure there are those who hate to see that taking place. They want a return for their own selfish reasons; they may have a nostalgic view of Russia before 1990, or (and this is my belief--it makes more sense) they thrive on the Negro/Jewish ideology that as long as they are some persecuted minority, no one or nothing can ever un-do or offer any apology for any wrong; real or imagined. We were done wrong, someone owes us, and we will decide what hoops you will jump through to satisfy us--blah, blah, blah... :roll:
These tired, whiny arguments are all the same and from the same bedfellows.
Just like gnats, we have to swat them (anti-MPs, NAACP, ADL, PETA, SPLC, SDS, SLA, etc...) away from time to time.

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Kybihetz21
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Post by Kybihetz21 »

and you call yourself a Christian? This is a response to all of you that can only go on and on hating each other for the sake of "truth". Instead of thinking who is "right", and which canons are to be used against one's "enemy", why don't you all try to pray and forgive one another, like our Lord would have done? Sorry, that's probably too much to ask ... This is supposed to be a forum to gather information, help one another, and request prayers, not a "Spiritual" battlefield, where we all fight against each other, trying to prove the veracity of our ideas or beliefs ... I know this will probably not help the cause, but I am just sick to see all of these "brothers in Christ" hate each other more than the Devil hates the Cross.

P.S. By the way, about the MP, I lived (and had family members killed by communists) in a communist regime, where many groups, including the official "church", did supported (still does) the government, so please, no more apologies for the these pseudo "Christian" organizations, you are either for Christ, or against it.

Pravoslavnik
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SCWaterfowl's State of Denial

Post by Pravoslavnik »

Pravo,
Just perhaps you are puzzled because you can not understand that a bishop--or anyone--could have been mis-led by all the BS and lies against the MP. There are many that have changed their minds about the recent re-unification once they've gotten past this petty, foolish, internet propaganda.

Dear SCWaterfowl,

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    One can hardly call [i]The Sword and the Shield[/i] "petty, foolish, internet propaganda."  It is a very scholarly, well-documented, detailed historical reference on the Mitrokhin KGB archives published by a Professor from Cambridge University in 1999.  You, obviously, need to do some remedial study before making further public statements on the subject of the MP and the KGB.   Please also dispense with the ignorant, racist statements about African Americans and Jews on an Orthodox Christian board.  Save those comments for you Ku Klux Klan board..
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