Death & dying

[joasia]

With all the miracles by Christ, the Theotokos and the saints...there is always an opportunity to put our faith in God. We'll never know if it could have happened for Terri. They were not Orthodox and unfortunately didn't have that option to turn to, because of their ignorance.

My personal view is that I would turn to the relics or miracle icons for healing for myself or anyone in my family. Actually, I already did that for a cousin of mine who was dying from cancer..with the oil of St. John Maximovich. Thirteen years later, he is well and clear of cancer.

Yes, there were operations, but I will put my faith in God's miracles first. The operation is a tool, but the outcome is in God's Hand. We just have to ask.

But, many people focus on the worldly mentality...thinking about the logic of cause and effect. God's miracles transcend that logic. We just have to believe.

[Maria]

With all the miracles by Christ, the Theotokos and the saints...there is always an opportunity to put our faith in God. We'll never know if it could have happened for Terri. They were not Orthodox and unfortunately didn't have that option to turn to, because of their ignorance.

My personal view is that I would turn to the relics or miracle icons for healing for myself or anyone in my family. Actually, I already did that for a cousin of mine who was dying from cancer..with the oil of St. John Maximovich. Thirteen years later, he is well and clear of cancer.

Yes, there were operations, but I will put my faith in God's miracles first. The operation is a tool, but the outcome is in God's Hand. We just have to ask.

But, many people focus on the worldly mentality...thinking about the logic of cause and effect. God's miracles transcend that logic. We just have to believe.

I have heard of many miracles being worked through the intercession of St. Nectarios and St. John of San Francisco.

[Reader Benjamin]

I am going to address the subject of suffering and the Orthodox Church. For those of you that have read or are reading "The Royal Way of the Cross of Our Lord Leading to Eternal Life" you will have or be getting an idea of what suffering is, acording to the teachings of the Church. Suffering in this life is inevitable, we all suffer. However to end anyones' suffering now is not a good thing. If someone is on life support and there is no hope for recovery, unplug them and trust in God. If they remain alive after that, then feed them until they die, that is not artificial life support. We feed our babies, to stop feeding any one is killing them because no one can live without food. When a person is being fed and it all comes back out, that is not the same as not feeding them.

More on suffering, if we live to be 100 years old, suffering great pain every instant of our life, what does that compare to Eternaty? Suffering is a result of the fall of man and our sins. We deserve Eternity in the flames of Gehena. However God has chosen to give us a way out. It is our choice, God does not force us. We may suffer a little now for our sins, and then be spared suffering for eternity for our sins. We are to bear our Cross of suffering patiantly knowing that we deserve much more for our sins. As we grow in this God grants us an assurance and we then bear our suffering with joy, because of our reward in Heaven. Then as we grow in this, we are joyful in our suffering because of our Love for God, and this suffering is from His hand.

When it comes to suffering we need to keep and Eternal perspective, not the stop it now because all suffering is bad. Yes we are to take our medicines and such, and we are not to go to the Philipines and have us nailed to a cross, or things of this nature. Satan will take us any where we want to go, as long as it keeps us from growing closer to God. When we suffer we call upon God for help, many times we are not cured or what ever, but our attitude changes and our suffering does not seem so great. We have a warmth in our heart from the presence of God.

Suffering is not evil, it is a result of evil, but "All things work together for good to them that love God, to them called acording to His purpose" Rom 8:28

[Hexapsalms]

Hexapsalms:

I pray that God spares you the agony of ever having to make a life and death decisionfor a loved one. You do not have the faith or strength for it.

Mira

Nothing like being slapped in the face with a "prayer" which, of course, is no prayer, but an nasty insult with the God word attached to it. Wonder what He thinks of your using His name in vain.

And since you summarily judged that I have "no faith or strength for it" (as if you know me), I certainly do have experience with the issue being discussed in this forum.

A hospice killed my father for financial gain, and got away with it because of its political connections. Perhaps you should "pray" that you never have devastating agony of dealing with crooked hospices and their minions in governmental agencies that pull such horrible stunts. Just how strong in faith and strength would you be for that?

Hospice was once a wonderful Christian concept to alleviate suffering of the terminally ill (not to kill them) when it was re-introduced by Dr. Cecily Saunders in England 40 years ago, but in this country, the idea of hospice is slowly becoming a dicey thing where euthanasia (not end of life care) is becoming the treatment of choice.

If you think I'm just making this up, look here--a whole website dedicated to just such a problem:

http://www.hospicepatients.org/

I agree with Reader Benjamin's remarks above. Christianity does not consider suffering a sin, but I will go further and say that paganism certainly does. In the pagan world there was never any sympathy with the victim, only disdain and disregard as it was a position of dishonor. Euthanasia, abortion and suicide were widely practiced in the pagan world. It took Christ and His Cross to change that attitude that was once so prevalent. Ever wonder exactly how and why Christ's Passion could possibly change this way thinking?

Christians should begin to ask themselves this question instead of getting swallowed up in the resurgent paganism of this world.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

We should expect the media together with society to highlight the most difficult and controversial subjects in the country. Modern society loves controversy and intrigue, dare I say people in general don't love Terry, they love the controversy.

It is my belief that Orthodox Christians should not get wrapped up in these controversies, the Lord gives us our own struggles and tests to focus on, which are much easier to decide, and yet we are constantly failing. The world is heading one way, Orthodox Christians another.

That is just my opinion though.

[Ekaterina]

Hexapsalms:

Miriam wrote:
Hexapsalms:

I pray that God spares you the agony of ever having to make a life and death decisionfor a loved one. You do not have the faith or strength for it.

Mira

Nothing like being slapped in the face with a "prayer" which, of course, is no prayer, but an nasty insult with the God word attached to it. Wonder what He thinks of your using His name in vain.

A hospice killed my father for financial gain, and got away with it because of its political connections

Perhaps Miriam was wrong to say what she did but I would point out one small thing that is different between both your comments. In Miriam's case it sounds like she did have to make an agonizing life or death decision, in your case it sounds like the "decision" ....right or wrong...you did not elaborate... was made for you and the feelings you are displaying are anger and hatred. Not the same as having to make the decision yourself and having to live with those choices.

Please tell us your story so that we may benefit from your experience. That was the whole idea behind starting this thread.

Katya