Question If ROCOR joins MP will all ROCOR threads go here?

George Australia · Post by **George Australia** » Wed 2 March 2005 3:29 pm

And so it begins....
anything which does not agree with the "party line" and proves it to be erroneous is removed.
I seem to recall a similar thing happening in Russia under the communsts.

尼古拉前执事 · Post by **尼古拉前执事** » Wed 2 March 2005 3:44 pm

Wrong George. You know what you wrote, you know what you said to personally attack Paul the person, not his argument, and you know what foul names you called him. Such unChristian behavior will not be tolerated and since instead of taking this warning to reflect and apologize and repent for those horrible words you wrote, you instead decided to again assume and attack those that run the Cafe, we will give you a one week vacation to think over your brash, uncouth words.

尼古拉前执事 · Post by **尼古拉前执事** » Wed 2 March 2005 3:52 pm

BTW George, just to clarify, Paul does not spout the "party line". He and I disagree on a number of things, but we can be civil enough to argue our ideas and not personally attack one another, call each other foul names, etc. There is a difference in arguing ideas and attacking people just as there is a difference in condemning a sin a person may be involved in vs. condemning a person's soul.

paul · Post by **paul** » Wed 2 March 2005 4:07 pm

You are not in context. The way the Bible and the Fathers use the word is with the defintion:
Galations 1:9:
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Does this mean "Let him be lifted up"? Does this make sense to you?

Greek English Lexicon:
"Anathema esto" = A biblical formula, "let him or it be accursed"

Please refute Saint Ignatius, and Saint Athanasius.

Please refute Saint Ambrose:
"Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers; and again a man that is an heretic avoid after the first warning, knowing that he is fallen and is in sin, being condemned of his own judgement." [On the Christian Faith 1, 6, 47]

Please do not avoid this quote as you did the others. I many others if you would like to hear them.

Please, difine "infallibity" of the Church. I am not using the word in the moral sense. As you seem to have.

I am not interested in winning the argument. My ego is not at stake. I only wish the truth.

paul

Liudmilla · Post by **Liudmilla** » Thu 3 March 2005 6:52 am

Dear Fr Dcn:

I thought about this all night and I think you are wrong to "punish" only George. George's reaction may have been intemperate....(not in my own personal view), but Paul should also be banned for a week. He has done nothing but cause incitement, rancor and anger with his postings. And in the end all he shows is a certain smugness in his "righteousness" instead of the sadness he should be feeling as an ORTHODOX person for the harm he has caused to another soul. (And I'm not talking about just George.)

He is an infrequent poster who for a second time now has caused an adverse reaction in an Orthodox person. I have known may like him in my life. They are the so-called Orthodox people I avoid like the plague. There is no true Orthodoxy in their souls, no matter how much righteousness they spout with their souls.

As a member of ROCOR I do not feel welcome here any more. My Church has been called everything , including a whore. There is no justification for such debasement. It is not the Church that is at fault, but rather it is her sinful people who are at fault. We would rather run and create a new church, than fight for what we believe to be right within the existing frame work. As much as a church is authoritarian in nature, I believe that if enough voices cry out against the wrong, God would have provided a way to say NAY. But we don't give this a chance, no we must "separate" ourselves, before even everything has been tried. I do not believe that we have tried everything. The great many jurisdictions that exist today only bring truth to my words.

As a child of the 60's and 70's, from a world that created such creatures as Jim Jones, I hesitate to destroy what exists, I would rather try to fight to save what is. I do not believe we have fought the "good" fight, it is still to come. As a second generation child of Orthodox believers, I have no interest in allying with Moscow...my own opinion is that it's not yet time. There is still time to make the proper arguements, regardless what everyone seems to feel, but as weak humans we would rather give up than fight.

I don't think I'll be posting during Lent. There is too discord here right now and no one is listening to the voices of reason who ask for everyone to stop the discord. I need to step back from this.

I pray everyone has a good and profitable fast.

Milla