Moderator: Mark Templet
Our Church in Greece is thriving. There is an unofficial website recently created by a group of youth in our Church, where you can read more about us.
Romanos,
Miami, Florida
Any opinions expressed in this post are strictly my own and do not represent the official opinion of St. Menas Greek Orthodox Chapel, the GOC of Greece, or any of her clergy.
Dear-in-Christ Joasia,
As a fellow convert I understand your frustration. It's a very painful situation for everyone.
Something you might want to consider, though -- I met someone many years ago who told me he believed the Russian Empire fell because the common people stopped receiving Communion. Whether that's true or not I have no idea, but the more I thought about it the more I saw he had a valid premise underneath.
Orthodoxy is not a collection of individuals, it's a symbiotic union, the Body of Christ. One Christian is no Christian.
Our bishops are a spiritual expression of who we are. While they bear responsibility for their own personal sins and flaws, if we have weak bishops it's because we have, God forgive us, weak faith. It may seem facetious, and I'm not trying to make light of a serious situation, but if we want better bishops we should pray harder, give more alms.
"Effectual prayer" does mean something or it wouldn't have been drawn to our attention. We're all in this together.
Wishing you a peaceful Feast,
Patrick M.
Joasia,
I'm not sure what you are looking for? Even in the 4th century, which is considered some kind of "Golden Age" for the Church, people like St. Gregory the Theologian and St. John Chrysostom were decrying how unspiritual and poorly off the priests and bishops were. I don't think we should expect anything better. Or perhaps a better way of looking at it is, collectively we shouldn't expect better, but when thinking/dealing with each individual bishop we should always always always give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are a pious, wonderful bishop. They are all, after all, bishops, whether they are personally worthy of that title or not. Jesus said, "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example." (Matt. 23:2-3)
προσκυνητής wrote:Our Church in Greece is thriving. There is an unofficial website recently created by a group of youth in our Church, where you can read more about us.
Romanos,
Miami, FloridaAny opinions expressed in this post are strictly my own and do not represent the official opinion of St. Menas Greek Orthodox Chapel, the GOC of Greece, or any of her clergy.
I like your new website, Romanos. An administrator of this site, "OrthodoxyorDeath", claims that many of the churches you claim as yours have returned to the Synod of His Beatitude Chrysostomos II. Would you be able to assure us that every parish listed on that list is at this time under the so-called Lamian GOC?
Anastasios
As I said, it is not my website, but one belonging to some of our youth in Greece. If you have any questions about the content of the website, you should contact them through the website.
Romanos
Florida, USA
The content of any of my posts is strictly my own opinion and not the official position of St. Menas Greek Orthodox Chapel, the GOC of Greece, nor any of her clergy.
Thank you for posting the young people's or 'yuff' website, I will poke about in there when there is more time.
Justin has a point about the grumbles or complaints about both bishops/clergy and lay activity or the lack of it being nothing new. St John Chrysostom certainly also addressed the question of why lay-folk didn't come to church, too.
Sometimes perhaps the question might be, what is our involvement and commitment? As one Chinese friend pointed out years ago, point a finger at another and three point back at you. Not a comfortable thought!
And among the dust are there not gems too. As I prowl around they 'pop' up in different places, a Serbian bishop here, a Greek new calanderist there, a Greek of the Church calendar in another place.
Some would be quick to label this one or that schismatic, but I notice some of the Fathers of the Golden Age were very, very slow to label any with this damning description.
The bishop together with his flock is the church, in its fullness. That is what we are told, and therefore some responsibility lays upon us. And if the bishops tread strange paths or seem to lack zeal, is it that we too wear them down and pressure them. Oh Vladyka, if I have to wear a head-covering forget it, or the services are too long, the icons too severe etc., etc. Humility, obedience and self-knowledge appear to be replaced by establishing one's own status, rights and listening to the god within. On top appears a marked tendency to mix up social agendas with the Faith, politics and an over-identity between church and ethnicity (or the lack of it), or the nation-state. And to cap it all the teaching of the Tradition. Scripture and the Fathers is approached in manner foreign to the spirit of Orthodoxy; and the canons are a weapon to applied anywhere and everywhere except to ourselves, and in an alien way...............
Sometimes I wonder whether it is that we prefer to scapegoat others because in so doing we escape gazing deep within ourselves and, with the help of a priest, using the guidance of Tradition, Scripture, the Fathers and the canons against which to measure our own shortcomings. Did not the saintly Seraphim of Sarov not weep for his enumerable sins?