JURISDICTION BASHING

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Mon 25 October 2004 9:01 am

Aristokles wrote:
He is only consistent in his mis-understanding of The Church and his persistence in his Protestant positions.

But I don't misunderstand the Church. I know what the Church teaches.

Aristokles wrote:
The furtherest I have ever read is the opinion that we Orthodox KNOW Salvation's path is found in the Church.

But I also agree that salvation 's path is found in the Orthodox Church.

Aristokles wrote:
Outside the Church (where Tom now lurks), we cannot state.

Okay. So.....then what's the problem if I think that it does? You have already stated that the Church will not take a position on it. Does that mean that my opinion is WRONG? And btw, let's not forget that YOU, as a member of the GOA, are not considered "part of the Church" by some of your fellow Orthodox.

Aristokles wrote:
Tom needs to quit his tantrums and go be whatever he wants.

I already KNOW what I am. I am Orthodox. Whether others feel that I am Orthodox enough, does not concern me in the least.

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Mon 25 October 2004 9:41 am

Okay. So.....then what's the problem if I think that it does? You have already stated that the Church will not take a position on it. Does that mean that my opinion is WRONG?

Tom, that the Church does not take a position on this (unless a very dark and somber attitude can be construed as a position) also does not give you a license to think anything more.

If someone were to ask me, I would say I have enough of my own spiritual problems to worry about. If they pressed the question, I would respond with sobering facts, like these people are not Baptized or Communed, and scripture says, that no man may enter unless he has these things. Certainly a very bleak picture. But if they still pressed for a yes or no answer, they would be met by silence, because silence is the answer. There is certainly no room for statements such as yours.

George Australia · Mon 25 October 2004 10:16 am

"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."

ST. THEOPHAN THE RECLUSE

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Mon 25 October 2004 10:33 am

George Australia wrote:
I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."

ST. THEOPHAN THE RECLUSE

Well, I guess it's a good thing that I am not doing that!

George Australia · Mon 25 October 2004 10:41 am

TomS wrote:
George Australia wrote:
I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."

ST. THEOPHAN THE RECLUSE

Well, I guess it's a good thing that I am not doing that!

But are you following the Saint's advice you didn't include in the quote? here it is again:

You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern.

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Mon 25 October 2004 10:48 am

George Australia wrote:
TomS wrote:
George Australia wrote:
I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."

ST. THEOPHAN THE RECLUSE

Well, I guess it's a good thing that I am not doing that!

But are you following the Saint's advice you didn't include in the quote? here it is again:

You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern.

But St. Theophan was a RECLUSE - what does he know about anything outside of his little world? How many discussions do you think he had with a protestant?

The problem is that too many of these people judge - without knowing what they are judging. It's about wordly pride.

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Mon 25 October 2004 11:21 am

But St. Theophan was a RECLUSE - what does he know about anything outside of his little world? How many discussions do you think he had with a protestant?

The problem is that too many of these people judge - without knowing what they are judging. It's about wordly pride.

Oh my goodness, this one takes the cake.

What does St. Theophan, St. Nicodemos, ect know about raising children? I mean, its not like they had any, and I usually frown from getting advice about raising children from people who have no idea what its like. Yet these saints wrote magnificient treatises on the subject that are as true then as they are now!

Why is this so? Because we Orthodox beleive these men were enlightened by the Holy Spirit having themselves attained unity with God and divine knowledge. This is what the Orthodox believe.

I do have a certain respect for you Tom; being in the GOA, you are the first person I know to have the backbone and say what I know so many in the GOA practice while giving lip service to Orthodoxy.

Thank you for the honesty.