In defense of the faith....

Liudmilla · Post by **Liudmilla** » Thu 19 August 2004 1:18 am

Tom:
I agree with you ....the more I contemplate this thread the more I begin to realize that I,too, do not have what is necessary to be a martyr. It is for this reason that I believe so few are called. It frankly bothers me when someone brazenly makes the comment "to the death", for me it shows a lack of understanding of self. One can only hope that we would be given the strength necessary if called upon to witness to our faith. For myself, I pray that God use me in other ways for I am most doubtful of my strength. No one can really say what they will do when faced with a difficult choice. One can only hope.

Milla

George Australia · Post by **George Australia** » Thu 19 August 2004 4:01 am

LIUDMILLA wrote:
One can only hope that we would be given the strength necessary if called upon to witness to our faith. For myself, I pray that God use me in other ways for I am most doubtful of my strength.

Dear in Christ Liudmilla,
I too agree with you and TomS. Martyrdom is a grace which we often read in the Lives of the Saints that they were "deemed worthy of". It would be presumptuous to consider ourselved "deemed worthy of martyrdom."
And there is no telling who will be deemed worthy. St. Cosmos the Aitolan, the 'Apostle to the Poor' of Greece during the Ottoman occupation reported a sentinel incident. There was a certain scoundrel in a village who often stole and borrowed money without returning it. In the same village was a pious schoolmaster whom the Ottomans were about to behead for openly preaching Christianity. The scoundrel approached the schoolmaster on his way to his beheading and asked his forgiveness for any wrongs he had done him. The schoolmaster refused to give him forgiveness, and suddenly turned to the soldiers to ask them why he was being beheaded. The soldiers repeated that it was for openly preaching Christianity, upon which the schoolmaster denied that he was a Christian. When this was reported to the Pasha, the schoolmaster was released and imediatley died. The scoundrel then went to the Pasha and said: "The fool sayeth in his heart 'there is no God', I am a Christian and have seen the power of my Christ and if I don't proclaim it, the stones themselves will shout it out!" The ex-scoundrel was then beheaded and died a martyrs death.
George

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Sat 21 August 2004 8:03 pm

As to George's story...the question should be...if we were put in a position in being forced to deny our faith, would we have the courage to confess it? Despite everybody's personal view on the politics of the church...that aside, does everybody here believe in Jesus Christ to the point of refusing to deny Him? That is what makes a person a martyr.

Personally, I may break fasts or not pray so much or not go to Holy Communion alot...and I can have assumptions of others...but, I feel so deeply about the fact that Jesus Christ is our Messiah, that I can never deny this Truth.

Please don't think that I'm being dramatic. If I could not deny being the child of my father(the one that is in the flesh), then how can I deny my Father who is in Heaven, who created me?

If somebody asked" "Do you believe in Jesus Christ?", then I would have to say yes. I cannot say anything other than that.

Perhaps, there are some people here who would say no because of family or whatever...having fear of the consequences. But, this is what seperates the believers from the hypocrites(those who think they are being Christian, but when push comes to shove, they become cowards).

In Christ,

Joasia

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Sat 21 August 2004 8:21 pm

Joasia wrote:
Perhaps, there are some people here who would say no because of family or whatever...having fear of the consequences. But, this is what seperates the believers from the hypocrites(those who think they are being Christian, but when push comes to shove, they become cowards).

Joasia is skipping down her "holier than thou" road again. She is just such a godd Christian - you get 5 stars tonight for making this stupid comment.

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Sat 21 August 2004 8:25 pm

Joasia wrote:
Perhaps, there are some people here who would say no because of family or whatever...having fear of the consequences. But, this is what seperates the believers from the hypocrites(those who think they are being Christian, but when push comes to shove, they become cowards).

Joasia is skipping down her "holier than thou" road again. It's amazing to me that someone could be so prideful. You, Missy -- have NO IDEA what you would REALLY do!

BTW - before you shoot your mouth off again with these types of statements - perhaps you should take a minute and consider that "hypocrite(those who think they are being Christian)" St. Peter.

Maybe you should reread that part of the Gospel!

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Sat 21 August 2004 9:45 pm

Tom

I'm just stating a simple fact....to be Christian, despite our sinful states, can come down to the defining point of whether we confess or deny Jesus Christ as the Messiah. This IS the ultimate meaning of being Christian. Who can argue that?

Would YOU deny worshipping Jesus Christ when under definite persecution? I would not; although being faced with torture and death, I would still have fear of the pain I would endure. But, I cannot say that I don't worship Jesus Christ.

You, Missy -- have NO IDEA what you would REALLY do!

I have confessed my Orthodox faith to my own papist family...that is difficult enough. Do you know what it means to have your own parents against you? Anything else after that will not be difficult, as they will, at least, not be family. I HAVE defied my own parents, Tom. Not like a teenager difies the parents, but like I have become considered the black sheep of the family. My parents are ashamed of me. They do not want me to talk about religion to them or anybody they know. I am considered more of an embarassment than an homosexual.

So believe me when I say that I have no problems about confessing Christ to the anti-christs. It is ALL that I believe in...in this stupid, mundane, catatonic-minded world.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your comment about St. Peter and the gospel I should read. I wasn't quoting anything.

In Christ,

Joasia[/quote]

George Australia · Post by **George Australia** » Sun 22 August 2004 12:50 am

Joasia wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your comment about St. Peter and the gospel I should read.

Dear In Christ, Joasia,
I believe that what TomS is referring to is St. Peter's triple denial of Christ:

John 13:37-36 Peter said to Him. "Lord, why can I not follow You now? I will lay down my life for Your sake." Jesus answered him, "Will you lay down your life for my sake? Most assuredly, I say to you, the rooster shall not crow till you have denied me three times."

We live in a simple mountain village here in the Blue Mountains of Australia, and we have a chicken coup on our property. We have this rooster that's always getting into trouble- it once picked a fight with a kangaroo and has a broken wing to prove it. Yet every morning it sits on the paddock fence and crows, boasting of great things- just like St. Peter did. St. Peter promised Christ: "I will lay down my life for Your sake" and yet, before that very night was over, he denied Christ three times. Even Judas denied Christ only once.
No one can remain faithful to Christ simply out of their own will and actions- without Christ we can do nothing. None of us can know if it will be given to us to be faithful to the end, nor to whom it will be given. A disciple was lost to perdition for one denial, another was reconciled after three denials, and a thief who was dying in his sins was given entry to Paradise for uttering one sentence.
George