Appropriate Modest Clothing in Church

Liudmilla · Post by **Liudmilla** » Thu 24 June 2004 12:29 pm

Tessa:

If only it were so easy...tieing it right...oh boy! I am much, much older than you ... so finding the right way is not the issue. God did not make my head scarf friendly...it's that simple...it's not even hat friendly, but at least they tend to stay put...mostly.

As for the Icon you refer to, you make a point on a item that was not created at the time of the Virgin's life, and it is part of a very stylized form of icons. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against the icon or even the idea of covering the head. I just think that it is taken out of context. Consider if you will most Semitic cultures in existence today who use the all eveloping burka...their young girls are not covered. As to the transition from girlhood to womanhood...I see nothing wrong with it. There is a time and a place for everything. We live in a society that robs children of their childhood, must we too participate in this?

Milla

Theodora Elizabeth · Post by **Theodora Elizabeth** » Thu 24 June 2004 1:28 pm

LIUDMILLA wrote:
Tessa:
We live in a society that robs children of their childhood, must we too participate in this?

Milla

Whoa! Having a young girl wear a headcovering in church is robbing her of her childhood? I think it's just the opposite - "protects" her innocence in a way (I'm thinking of teenaged girls here) because it might just force a young man to treat her with more respect.

Theodora Elizabeth

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Thu 24 June 2004 1:42 pm

LIUDMILLA wrote:
If only it were so easy...tieing it right...oh boy! I am much, much older than you ... so finding the right way is not the issue. God did not make my head scarf friendly...it's that simple...it's not even hat friendly, but at least they tend to stay put...mostly.
Milla

Just as a thought...Maybe it's the material the scarf is made from. I noticed here that the Russian women tend to prefer narrow (6" wide) scarf made of thin, light weight material. The scarves often wind up around their shoulders.

My wife was given a very nice scarf, made from wool that measures probably 12"square, and she generally doesn't have a problem with it falling off.

Alyosha · Post by **Alyosha** » Thu 24 June 2004 2:04 pm

I started covering my head two years ago after attending a seminar where a priest explained why we have this tradition. These reasons were already covered by people on the Forum. One reason that strongly spoke to me was that there is not one depiction of Theotokos with her head uncovered. That was enough. Also, I cover my head as a sign of obedience to God.

I think a discussion like this took place this Forum once before. If one has a goal of rationalizing out of something, he/she will definitely achieve this goal if determined enough.

Tessa - I have to say I'm mildly shocked. From your posts, I was convinced that you are in your 30s... well, it's great to have such a mature 21-year old aboard

Alyosha · Post by **Alyosha** » Thu 24 June 2004 2:11 pm

duh. I totally forgot why I wanted to post in the first place. I find that if I decide to forgo nice looks and wear a good old Russian-style bandana (kosynka/platok/hustka), cross it under my chin and tie it behind my neck - I don't even notice during the service that it's on. It never falls off - whether I venerate icons, bow, take communion, etc. Of course, the temptation often is to look pretty - that's when the 6" scarves come into the picture.. yes, those things just don't stay on your head.

Natasha · Post by **Natasha** » Thu 24 June 2004 4:30 pm

Olja-that is the way I wear mine too..and even though they are silk, if you throw it under your chin and tie it loose behind your neck, that thing is going nowhere!

Tessa, you are right about the icons...we should model ourselves after such examples.

Liudmilla · Post by **Liudmilla** » Thu 24 June 2004 4:53 pm

The young ladies of this forum sometimes make me laugh and then sigh...oy!

The issue is, AGAIN, not the size of the scarf (For me to even BEGIN to work it has to be cotton, and 3 times bigger than a 12 x 12 square), it is not in the tieing of it (after 48 years of trying everything, I think I can safely say I have tried everything, including pins and the under the chin routine) and it certainly is NOT a vanity thing... pleeeease!!!. If you knew me you would have histerics at the shear thought of it!

As for wool.... don't even think to offer it to a menapasal woman I'd pass out from the heat of it. (When y'all get to that stage look me up :ohvey: )

My point is not that wearing a scarf is a bad thing...in fact I have stated several times that I am NOT against it.....I am against making small, as in under 12 years old, you know those tiny ones that you have to hold in your arms during the service, wear a scarf that is tied so tight that their brains are constricted (so it doesn't fall off of course). Teenagers fall under the catagory of being young WOMEN and therefore should be wearing somesort of head covering anyway.

Also, with reference to the Theotokos never being pictured without a headcovering...well in the church I attended in Sea Cliff, NY there is an icon...one of my favorites and a very rare one at that... without a head covering. I know it well since I have stood next to it for the past 30 odd years.

As to the childhood innocense well....that's my opinion. You can prepare a young girl for most things, if you want, you can make the donning of the scarf as a rite of passage and I think you would have very little problems with it. It's all in how you as a parent handle it.

milla