My pet peeves

[Seraphim Reeves]

Regarding looking "sexy," all I can ask is: why? What is the purpose of "looking sexy"? This one baffles me. I'll no doubt be dismissed out of hand by many as a "puritan" or "legalist" or something akin to this, but I really don't understand what benefit there is in "looking sexy". Leastwise, if you compare the benefits of modesty, and the perceived benefits of "looking sexy," I don't think there's any way modesty could lose out.

I'm with you on this one. No modest woman should be trying to look "sexy". Being neat, clean, and tasteful are one thing; purposely trying to attract/excite sexual feelings in men is not simply inappropriate, it's sinful.

A big problem we have here (and I fail on this score as badly as anyone else), is that we live in a culture that is in many ways at odds with Orthodox Christianity, particularly in the "practical sphere." Though we're supposedly in a pluralistic culture, it takes some courage to be "different". Whether it be refusing to swear or enter into smutty conversation with co-workers and peers (and not looking too pleased when others insist on doing such around you), stopping to pray first before eating in public, or any of the other little things we all do as part of our daily life...to do this requires a little bit of courage.

It also takes some courage on the part of women (particularly young women) to not copy the unchaste fashions of their peers. However, these things are all, directly and indirectly, ways of testifying to Christ before others - and if we fail to do this, He will not testify on our behalf before His Father.

While it is the Church's nature to have Her arms open to the world (Orthodoxy is not supposed to be a tribal religion, as the religion of the Old Testament tended to be), I think it may be time for Christians to take seriously that they're not "just like everyone else". That is to say, perhaps things are so bad in contemporary society, that we really should start "sticking out" just a little bit (rather than modify our habits to mimick the world.) We are a "peculiar people", and if what the world is doing around us is simply not moral, we shouldn't copy it out of human respect.

While I don't think we need go as far as say, religious Jews or Muslims do in their manner of dress, to some extent I think they have the right idea. Our difference being that we're neither "luddites" (simply canonizing certain styles of clothing for no reason other than fear of change), nor do we have it in our heads that we must dress in every detail like Christ (as the Muslims do with Muhammed.)

Seraphim

[Seraphim Reeves]

I think those who demand all women dress like 'Little House on the Prairie' all the time haven't grasped the distinction between desire (natural attraction) and lust (the abuse of sex, a sin) and seem to have a problem with women, period. Sexy doesn't necessarily mean sinful.

This would be fine, if it were not for original sin. I do not need to tell you that our ability to properly excercise/enjoy our appeteites has been seriously curtailed. Thus, why we as sinners are not to spiritually/morally "play with matches" - we're a very flammable bunch.

This is why Christian cultures (and in general, most traditional societies) have had standards of modesty which we today (being liberated, apparently) would find "extreme." However, it would seem our only argument against these traditional sensibilities is selfish sensuality and human respect. We are very much a "peculiar people", as uncomfortable as that can be at times (and this goes for both men and women.)

Seraphim

[Natasha]

I do agree that there are many women who wear inappropriate clothing to church. I also think that many men also wear the wrong type of clothing to church. I will never dress like Laura I. Wilder, however, I always wear a long skirt, a sleeved shirt and a head scarf to church, just as I was taught to since a child. The only Orthodox churches in my area are OCA & GOA and I am appalled at the things I see there. I feel as if I am an 80 year-old babushka (when actually I am only 26 years old)! Denim is inappropriate, children playing with toys is inappropriate, men and women standing together is inappropriate, priests with crew-cuts and clean shaves are inappropriate, TRIMMING DOWN THE DIVINE LITURGY SERVICE AND OMMITTING VERSES IS INAPPROPRIATE....as you can tell I can go on & on...
I am not an immigrant, I was born in this country to parents of Russian ancestry, but I still hold the values of Russian Orthodoxy, and I am so saddened to see others disgrace the church in these ways.

Natasha

[Liudmilla]

I have been reading the posts on this particular topic and find it just a bit one sided. There are a lot of young men looking at and judging a lot of women. I would suggest to you that you are not concentrating hard enough on your prayers and your thoughts are not under control. Try harder my fellow brothers in Christ.

I would suggest to you that the young man who shows up in church in those skin tight jeans, is just as distracting as a woman could be. Let's not forget the form fitting polo or tee shirts that you favor. We are women after all not saints!!

I would suggest that the person making ten thousand prostrations is more distracting than the woman smart enough to know she shouldn't get down on the floor....whatever the reason. The gymnastics is horribly distracting....check the back of your prayer book for the rules on prostrations, you guys need a refresher.

The problem is within ourselves and the judging we are doing of our fellow brethren. If what you see is a problem, close your eyes and concentrate on the prayer...or go stand in the front where it won't be in front of you and pray there...that's why you are in church, isn't it?

And just to clear something up....no I am not a femisit, no I am not a modernist, I am an old fashioned woman, who rejoices that everyone comes to church and prays that they will learn to be the modest, pious God-fearing people they can be.

[尼古拉前执事]

Welcome Natasha. Glad to see you at our little home on the web. Hope to see more of you here.

Its nice to see more of our lady posters chiming in on this. Thank you all. And Ludmilla is right, we men need to watch what we wear because if we cause someone to fall, we have sinned ourselves.

I am glad that we are all discussing this important issue and the many sides to it.

[demetrios karaolanis]

liudmilla is correct I feel, everyone needs to dress correctly in church not just the women. everyone should work hard to do what is right especially in the house of god.

[Miss Anastasia]

Amen.