Lord Have Mercy!

[romiosini]

Lord Have Mercy!

[George Australia]

Just as today many Patriarchs or Bishops have many opinions on Ecumenism; that doesn't mean that we have the right to accuse them or have the right to say they have no Grace.

Dear in Christ, Romiosini,
Neither you nor I say that the Mysteries of the Patriarchs and Bishops in question lack Grace- so I do not see what the the problem is there. It's not a matter of "accusing" either, it's a matter of preserving Orthodox doctrine. Either the Church is "One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic" or it is not. Either the Church is undivided or it is not. Ecumenism denies both these Patristic, Orthodox, Ecclessialogical Dogmas- whoever denies Orthodox dogma by saying there is more than one Church, or that the Church is divided is clearly holding (and teaching) Unorthodox doctrine. There can be no mistake that ecumenism is heresy. A Bishop who teaches it is teaching heresy, as much as if he were teaching that Christ has only one Nature.
In Christ,
George

[George Australia]

If my memory serves me well, there was a Metropolitan in the Usa under Archbhishop Demetrius (Greek Archdiocese of America EP) who said that the Copts are Orthodox. Which pretty much is his opinion. Or like many Bishops of the Ecumenical Patriarchate claim that the Roman Catholic Church is a sister Church to Orthodoxy.

Dear in Christ, romiosini,
I understand what you are saying, but what can I do when the Archbishop of my own former diocese is the Chief Signatory to the Balamand Union, and publically blasphemes the Holy Spirit and the Holy Orthodox Church in the WCC and I have written to him several times to complain? What do I do when the First Heirach of the EP (my former juristiction) repeatedly and publically says that papism is a "Sister Church" of the Orthodox Church, repeatedly prays publically with heretics and I have written twice to him to complain to no avail? What recourse is left to any of the Faithful who have tried to correct erroneous statements by bishops only to have them repeat them? The only recourse which the Church allows us is to wall them off.

Do you think the false ecumenism of the so-called "branch theory" or "shared truth theory" is an Orthodox teaching? Do you think that Christ has more than one Body? Do you think that the Vatican heads our "Sister Church"? Of course you don't! Then why should any heirarch of the Orthodox Church be permitted to say otherwise without admonition? And if they neither accept nor answer the admonition, why should they not be walled off? For the sake of appearances? Where would we be today if St. Mark Eugenikos hadn't walled off the Patriarch of Constantinople for his false union with Rome? St. Mark admonished, and when there was no correction, he walled off.

Of course the voice of one or more Bishops is not the voice of the Church, but why should any Orthodox Bishop be permitted to hold doctrines contrary to the teachings of the Apostles and Fathers of the Orthodox Church without challenge? For the sake of love? If your child was using heroin, would you remain silent out of love for them?
In Christ,
George

[away]

My honest answer is: I really dont know, and I secretly hope I die before I come to a conclusion on the traditionalist issue. Then when I see God I can say, I didnt know what to do yet, and I wont be lying. But maybe I am... Life is so sad and yet so very real. Does that peaceful man cry because he laments his lack of efforts to oppose the heretics, or does he cry because he sees the futility of such efforts? Maybe, like me, he just doesnt know, and hopes this layer of his ignorence can be forgiven along with the rest.

[sashaedwardovna]

I completely understand your confusion and sadness, Rominosi. I recently came to ROCOR from HOCNA (some people know them as the Pantelaimonites, which I find fairly degrading, but hey) and I am continually saddened that we must be seperate over such petty issues. I know the people in HOCNA, and for the most part, they're no different fro the people in ROCOR. And the same the othere way 'round. In these times, is it not far more important to band together and fight against the worldly evils every jurisdiction loathes then to create problems? We can't afford to fight ourselves! I know that the issues at this point aren't althogether petty, and I'm only talking about HOCNA and ROCOR b/c those are the only two I have any knowledge about, but I just wish things could get better! I love so many people from both places, and because Fr. Pantelaimon and Met. Ephraim decided they didn't want to get in trouble, I can't even mention one side to the other without trouble! Once the lies began, it was all over, and now my whole generation suffers because a couple monks (whom, by the way, I still respect because I learned a lot of very correct things from them) went on a power trip. And now (it seems to me, anyway) everyone's become so indoctrinated with hate that they don't want to reunite. So I pray, and I hope you all do to, that one day God will have mercy on us. In the last days, (which I feel are not far) we will need to be together. There is strength in numbers, and what good will Orthodoxy be if we destroy ourselves fro the inside?

[Tessa]

All I know is I am not a very GOOD Christian so I don't even TRY to conclude who is without grace and who is REALLY Orthodox. I just read a whole chapter about "Super-Correctness" in Father Seraphim Rose: His Life and Works and what a disease it is among "so-called" Traditionalists. It boils down to only God knows who is right and we should spend less time worrying who exactly that is and more time trying to imitate Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Tessa