Protestant Evangelization of Orthodox

Savva24 · Post by **Savva24** » Wed 3 September 2003 4:16 am

Dear all,

This is something I read over a year ago and lost it. It just appeared on the Indiana List again recently and I thought it was worth sharing here. It is the Doctoral Thesis of a Baptist which tries to sum up all of Orthodoxy and explain how to convert us. Usually it is so easy to tear apart Protestant arguments because there is such a lack, even disinterest in historical facts and what the holy fathers believed before the Bible was collected.
However the writer of the thesis has actually done his homework and lived in an Orhtodox Country for some time. It is very well resurched and I think we would all do well to read it and learn how to answer all of the questions and assumptions.

In Christ,

Nicholas

http://www.namb.net/evangelism/iev/PDF/ ... Manual.pdf

Natasha · Post by **Natasha** » Wed 3 September 2003 10:09 am

It is so hard for me to go over things like this because I am pretty sure I can feel my blood pressure rise while I am reading ....but you are right Nicholas/Savva, we should read it-because we all should know the enemy.
This all leads me back to a discussion we had awhile back where I said this is why we need to support our Orthodox brothers and sisters in Eastern Europe.
Does anyone know of any other charities besides the IOCC?

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Wed 3 September 2003 11:34 am

I think they linked to this over at OC.net at one time as well. I'm glad you posted it here though so people would be aware of it. Personally, it's just too big (and too wrong) for me to make any points about. It's not just a case of getting things technically wrong (what they say is "factual"), but they miss the spirit or point of the whole thing. For instance, they say that Orthodoxy "causes people to think the Church building is the only place God's Spirit works". A claim like that (and there are numerous such claims) would take an entire paper to refute. You can't just rebut that with a couple anecdotes or practices and think you've done anything: those who were Orthodox would say "well we already knew that," and for those who aren't Orthodox that wouldn't be a nearly thorough enough treatment of the topic. It's nice to know what types of arguments and questions to expect, though, so we can at least think about it in the meantime.

Natasha · Post by **Natasha** » Wed 3 September 2003 1:22 pm

I agree with you Paradosis. That statement, that Orthodoxy "causes people to think the Church building is the only place God's Spirit works", caught my eye as well. The whole paper seemed to be filled with those type of demeaning "facts" that would take volumes to accurately correct. For me, a girl with a short temper at times , it makes me want to SCREAM!

Alyosha · Post by **Alyosha** » Wed 3 September 2003 3:28 pm

A thought came to my mind: would it be possible for you guys to team up and write a "formal" rebuttal to Matt Spann addressing some of his wrongful claims & send it to Southwestern Baptist Seminary? Just a thought.

My close childhood friend, after we came to the US to be exchange students, got sucked into some protestant stream and is now a Bible College graduate and a youth pastor on a college campus. He often bashes Orthodoxy to me and since I'm just a diletante and don't have the same training as he does, I don't even try to argue with him. Instead, I usually say things like "read this book, or that book" Justin et al on this Forum - you guys do have some sound knowledge - so if you wrote something up - I would definitely be interested in reading and using as a guide for the future.

Gregory2 · Post by **Gregory2** » Wed 3 September 2003 8:10 pm

"Generally, Protestants subscribe to the decisions of the first six of the Ecumenical councils."
-really? They recite the Nicene Creed then?

"Evangelicals generally look to the Bible as the sole authority for their beliefs."
-yes, and they often act like God dropped it out of the sky as a guidebook to His people one day.

"The Church with its Tradition existed 300 years prior to the actual canonization of Scripture and the pronouncements of the 7 Ecumenical councils."
-this seems to contradict Protestantism in its entirety. Who "canonized" the Scripture? The local Baptist Church elders at the time? It doesn't even matter to this author. He feels that the Truth of Christianity is realized in Southern Baptism.

His understanding of the Orthodox view of Adam and Eve before the Fall is entirely wrong!

Every Orthodox book/article I've read stresses that icons are NOT idols! My old priest used to say "if they don't draw us closer to God, then they're just pieces of wood." This author writes that using icons "gives the wrong impression." Yeah, to him, who doesn't understand how to use them!

A silly manual on how to be a good Southern Baptist! It's pathetic that it actually earned him a Ph.D. -- just shows that they don't always mean much.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Wed 3 September 2003 9:41 pm

stgregorythetheologian wrote:
They recite the Nicene Creed then?

Sometimes, but not without the filioque!