Church politics and spiritual life

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Sun 21 January 2007 3:24 am

I have question relating to the ROCOR/MP union, which may appear controversial to both sides (pro and anti). I am questioning what do in the future when the union takes place since I do not believe that it is the right thing to do at this moment, but there is one thing that stops me from venturing towards other jurisdictions and it is this:

I could be wrong and please correct me if I am since this is why I am writing this post and I am only going on my own personal experience, but it seems to me that traditional jurisdictions have a strong focus on the correctness of Orthodox confession which is admirable, but when you get to know some of these people personally the same strictness of confession is not neccessarily applied to their personal praxis of Orthodoxy. For me this is a conflict of interest. There seems to be a lot of talk about what the MP is doing, what the news is on the union etc but very little about spiritual life, (for example the very pertinent issue of how to live an Orthodox life in an often anti-Christian environment etc). In a way it seems that the very active anti-unionists take spiritual life as a given, perhaps even as an afterthought or secondary. And yet spiritual life is never a given, it is a fierce struggle which requires much time and effort not only of yourself but also with the help of your spiritual father/mothers/brothers/sisters and as Fr.Seraphim wrote, that if you think about political issues all the time (even if they are Church issues) you won't have any time left for a spiritual life.

Will be gratefeul for your thoughts.

drewmeister2 · Post by **drewmeister2** » Sun 21 January 2007 11:37 am

True Orthodox Christians are humans like anyone else, and we also have our struggles and downfalls which we must work to overcome throughout our lifetime. Thus, True Orthodoxy will not be filled with perfect saints necessarily, but people who are struggling to save their souls, people who are at different stages of their spiritual development. Granted, though, there are some very spiritually strong people in the True Orthodox Churches, many of whom have been martyrs in the recent century. The important thing to remember is where the Truth is, there is the Church. You cannot save your soul outside the Church, so if you wish to truly become saint-like, you must be where the Truth is taught. The important thing is to find where the Truth is taught, not whether or not the True Orthodox appear to be the holiest people in the world. I speak from experience, too, as this was once an issue for me.

drewmeister2 · Post by **drewmeister2** » Sun 21 January 2007 12:34 pm

Just to add, I agree, politics can become a big focus for some people. The key is to not let it be the focus of your life. It was for me for a while, but I have overcome that. Sadly, the internet is filled with the political stuff. You just have to ignore some of it, but at the same time, it is good to keep yourself somewhat informed of what is going on in Orthodoxy, just don't let it take over your life.

Hope this helps.

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Sun 21 January 2007 11:18 pm

Thankyou for your reply drewmeister. Another thing that is a bit unsettling is the fact that other jursidictions are unfamiliar territory for me. I've never really been exposed to them or been able to see for myself what the environment is like. I guess I'm just a bit worried that it might be a bit full on with people talking politics all the time. Would you (or anyone else) be so kind as to write me a bit about your Church's environment/atmosphere/direction/activities/guiding philosophy etc.

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Mon 22 January 2007 6:14 am

Also drewmeister:

You rightly point out that traditionalists are after all humans as well, with weakness's just like everyone - but I think what I mean more is that some traditionalists apply very strict standards to confession of Orthodoxy but do not think it necessary to apply the same standards to praxis. It's not that they fall, it's that they don't think it's as important or just important. And if someone for whatever reason does not profess their same confession then they are considered a betrayer of Christ, but betrayals of Christ that may occur in their chosen un-Orthodox lifestyle decisions are considered secondary. This is what I mean.

Ekaterina · Post by **Ekaterina** » Mon 22 January 2007 7:33 am

Forgive me Helen.....but you are falling into the realm of judging.

I see this often when a person who has converted to Orthodoxy, they suddenly notice that everyone else is not as...strict, zealous, emersed and so on... in the faith as the convert thinks they should be. Consider that these people live an Orthodox praxis or have been doing so for a long time. You do not see their struggles which often occur behind closed doors and away from the eyes of their "brothers". This is exactly where this struggle should occur...away from others so that they are not judged for their lack of or excess of praxis.

If you have a question or concern go to your priest, but don't judge your fellow struggler because he does not seem to be as concerned as you about Orthodox praxis. They, like so many of us, have it in our bones, it is the way we were brought up. My spiritual father always said...who are you doing it for...God or for the praise/judement of others?

Katya

GOCTheophan · Post by **GOCTheophan** » Mon 22 January 2007 8:36 am

Ekaterina wrote:
Forgive me Helen.....but you are falling into the realm of judging.

Katya

Katya I dont think she was judging anyone.

She did after all say that she could be wrong. I for one believe her concerns are valid.

We will be saved by loving Christ and our neighbour, not by unloading carnal hatred on the MP.

There is a Spiritual danger that Traditionalists can fall into these days of believing that all they have to do to get into Heaven is condemn the apostasy- surely you will agree that is a real menance to some souls (particurly mine) and that there is a lot more to Salvation than that...

However if you dont any Spiritual hatred from the Soviet Church maybe that shows also that you have no love for Christ...

The path seems to get narrower and narrower..

Theophan.