Duma disappointed in one ROCOR delegate to Council

[尼古拉前执事]

State Duma deputy Constantine Zatulin - ambassador John Herbst appointemnt is a provocation

Moscow, April 28, Interfax - The fact that US ambassador to Ukraine, John Herbst, has been delegated from the diocese of Odessa and Zaporozhie to the All-Diaspora Council, which is to consider the re-unification of the two parts of the Russian Church, is a provocation, stated Constantine Zatulin, State Duma deputy and director of the Institute for the CIS Countries.

"The ambassador was really baptized according to the Orthodox rite. At the same time, the aim of his efforts as a person at the US State Department service is fairly evident. John Herbst acts in the interests of the USA", the political scientist stated as cited by Nezavisimaya Gazeta daily on Friday.

Zatulin stresses that in 2004-2005, all the efforts of the USA were aimed at supporting first the orange movement and then the orange power. This power itself is interested in fragmenting Orthodoxy and setting up the so-called 'one local church' in Ukraine, the newspaper writes.

"The plans for creating an 'independent' Orthodox Church, promoting the Uniates and preserving the so-called 'Ukrainian Patriarchate' set up by schismatic Filaret Denisenko is what Washington believes to be a sign of democracy in religious life".

As journalist Mikhail Leontyev stated on his part in the Odnako TV talk show broadcast last evening by Channel 1, US President George Bush, as far back as a year ago, forbade his ambassador 'any visits to the Kiev Cathedral of the Protecting Veil (Moscow Patriarchate - IF), where he, incidentally, had his own children baptized'.

'Opponents of the unification who accuse the Moscow Patriarchate of Sergianism, that is submission to the authorities, represent actually fierce neo-Sergianists of American making who have just chosen a different master', the TV observer said.

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1370

[Kollyvas]

Christus Resurrexit!

Being an American and registered Republican, who voted for Bush twice (3x if you count his aloof father), a social conservative, former "Reagan youth," and straussian, I PATENTLY CONCUR WITH THE OBJECTIONS OF THE DUMA TO THIS FELLOW WHO HAS BEEN PART OF A SOROS FUNDED POLITICAL ADVENTURE IN LITTLE RUSSIA. I suppose his presence doesn't smack of any sort of "sergianism'?! Yes, I understand the tensions between communities in Russia, her separated republics and the Mother Church, BUT at this juncture a representative of a GODLESS and hostile Western state ENGAGED IN DIVIDE ET IMPERA OSTPOLITIK is inappropriate. Today's Russia is AN ORTHODOX NATION which is recovering its Russian and Orthodox roots. Any talk of "sergianism" should be directed back at those living in the West or oligarchically controlled white slave states, clients to Western political adventurers, like the "Ukraine" (Ruthenia). No, sergianism as a heresy should be defined in terms of an ecclesiological heresy and anathemized BUT in this instance accusations of it are nonsensical if not HYPOCRITICAL.
Vere Resurrexit, Alleluia!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky

[尼古拉前执事]

The Duma, an arm of the Russian Government, if protesting who the ROCOR is choosing to send to send as one of many humdered deligated to a conference of uniting with the MP.

That was the news story I posted.

Now you are saying that this is Sergianism by the USA, because this delegate as his day job works for the U.S. Government, and not as a CIA agent even. Sergianism? Hardly.

Yet an arm of the Russian Government, is protesting an American citizen being a delegate to a meeting in America, for a Church outside of the borders of Russia.

Unless the ROCOR is uniting with an arm of the Russian government and as thus the Duma has a vested interest in this going a certain way, there should be no reason that the Duma should be protesting this.

But hey, maybe the ROCOR will listen to the orders of the Duma once it unites with the MP and then they will not have to protest, because instead they will simply control them?

[Justin Kissel]

But hey, maybe the ROCOR will listen to the orders of the Duma once it unites with the MP and then they will not have to protest, because instead they will simply control them?

That's right Deacon Nicholas, you just keep talking about the imaginary union (as opposed to communion/concelebration) of ROCOR with the MP. It is the only justification--uncanonical and anti-traditional as it is--that you can give for the existence of your group, and your fleeing a real Orthodox Church for a Hydra (but what will you do when the last of the heads have been chopped off?).

[尼古拉前执事]

So Justin you think union is not coming? You do realize that the all Dispora commission is meeting to decide this in a week's time? And as Bishop Daniel of the ROCOR has said, this gives the MP the right to chose the bishops for the ROCOR. Plus recently the MP ordained a deacon for the ROCOR in Russia Is this not steps to a coming union? Of course even if it was concelebration or communion, I obviously would be against this too.

Interestingly, how is an agnostic to judge where the truth lies when he has foresaken any type of Orthodoxy and even Christianity? Some would probably even go so far as to even say that non-Christians and atheists fighting for iand defending the MP over the Catacomb Churches show of what the MP truly is.

[Kollyvas]

Christ is Risen!
Evlogeite Pater.
It is precisely sergianism, for a representative of a foreign state is interefering in ecclesiastical matters in the furtherance of the horrid ostpolitik of that godless state. Whereas, the Duma, REPRESENTING ORTHODOX RUSSIA, has voiced concerns over this. Has it nullified the representation? No, because the Church is separate YET SUPPORTED BY AN ORTHODOX GOVERNMENT, whereas, the ROCOR mole is an agent hostile to unity of the Russian Orthodox Church. Their--US state dept.-- work in Ruthenia with their "orange revolutions" and soros' money shows EXACTLY how duplicitous the US state department is. Surely, you don't expect us to endorse such ideas of American "innocence." His presence is akin to kgb representation, PRECISELY sergianism BY A GODLESS STATE.
Indeed He is Risen!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky
The nigh "canonized" imperial model had the Russian local church as an arm of the state...that seems to be the panacea of some ROCOR spin off groups. Frankly, the MP should be recognized and supported as an independent state church. +Bishop Daniel, +Metropolitan Vitaly et al and +Metropolitan Valentin et al, etc., etc., etc. don't have the authority to reject or revise the instructions of St. Tikhon. And they are clear: REINTEGRATION INTO THE PATRIARCHAL CENTRE TO CONTINUE THE WORK OF THE ALL-RUSSIAN COUNCIL, no exceptions nor excuses. I will say that in all honesty, that it seems to me the "spin offs" empowered the unscrupulous in ROCOR and allowed them to compromise on very salient and dire issues. Had they remained in dialogue a better situation would have arisen WHICH WOULD HAVE BENEFITTED THE ENTIRE RUSSIAN CHURCH (which will eventually arise anyways with the awakening of the Russian Orthodox soul.). More moderate ecclesiologies with less overzealous alarmism would have delivered the day for the ROCOR legacy. But you all held the stake while Fr. Komarovsky hammered it in. Succinctly, the "spin offs" have themselves to blame that ROCOR fell into corruption and compromise--it was YOUR obligation to nip it in the bud and you chose to scream and yell, go home, doing nothing. Such resistance really is unworthy of the name.

[Kollyvas]

http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/syn ... promo.html

WASHINGTON , DC : April 28, 2006

Voice of America To Broadcast a Discussion of the IV All-Diaspora Council

On May 1, at 9 pm Moscow time (1 pm EDT), Voice of America's daily hour-long Russian-language program "Talk to America" will be devoted to the IV All-Diaspora Council and the prospects for normalizing the relations between the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia and the Moscow Patriarchate. The discussion will be headed by Protopriest Victor Potapov, along with the Secretary of the Pre-Council Commission, Protopriest Peter Perekrestov, along with Moscow Professor AB Zubov.

Voice of America invites listeners from Russia, Ukraine and other countries of the "near" and "distant" abroad to participate in this live discussion.

Callers can dial in directly to the following US number: 1-202-619-2084. Operators will respond in Russian. Callers will be asked to speak their name and telephone number, after which they will be called to save on phone charges.