Moderator: Mark Templet
I have been debating in my mind alot lately, is it ever good to be part of a schismatic group (even though many of the "World Orthodox" are very liberal, even modernistic in some cases)? I mean, unity is also an important factor, and there are more traditional jurisdictions that aren't schismatic (like ROCOR or MP).
What are your thoughts? Thanks! 
The question is who are the schismatics? Those who changed the faith or those who preserved the faith by refusing to change? The answer should be obvious.
"They that are of the Church of Christ are they that are of the truth; and they that are not of the truth are not of the Church of Christ…for we are reminded that we are to distinguish Christianity not by persons who have ecclesiastical titles, but by the truth and by the exactness of the Faith". -St. Gregory Palamas
Nathanael wrote:The question is who are the schismatics? Those who changed the faith or those who preserved the faith by refusing to change? The answer should be obvious.
"They that are of the Church of Christ are they that are of the truth; and they that are not of the truth are not of the Church of Christ…for we are reminded that we are to distinguish Christianity not by persons who have ecclesiastical titles, but by the truth and by the exactness of the Faith". -St. Gregory Palamas
True, Nathanial, I agree with you. But doesn't the Church have the authority to teach (which would include the power to excommunicate)? If this is true, wouldn't that mean that the Traditional Orthodox groups are schismatic, and not the World Orthodox (no matter how close some of the World Orthodox jurisdictions border heresy)?
I'm sorry, I don't mean to argue, I'm just trying to analyze this.
Thanks for your reply!
drewmeister2 wrote:I have been debating in my mind alot lately, is it ever good to be part of a schismatic group (even though many of the "World Orthodox" are very liberal, even modernistic in some cases)? I mean, unity is also an important factor, and there are more traditional jurisdictions that aren't schismatic (like ROCOR or MP).
What are your thoughts? Thanks!
Good, if but it was for the "Unity", you could see up to where the Roman Catholics have arrived... and many other, to base their ·"Unity" in the lie.
Now ROCOR will unite to the Soviet institution created by Stalin (MP)... ¿Is this "Unity"?
The true unity of the Church is in the Faith... you should think it
As far as I see it, I compare the actions of the hierarchs and clergy to what Christ taught. Does a synod uphold the Orthodox tradition? Does a synod teach heretical concepts?
Then I look at the individual synods and their hierarchs. What are their goals? What are their intentions?
At this point, I become quite disappointed.
Yes, I am not happy with ROCOR's move towards a union with the MP. Then again, I am not running off to one of the schismatic groups...I have found that their intentions are driven by personal ego.
The Pat. of Constantinople is obviously ecumenist and wants so desperately to unite with the pope. That's a big no-no. St. Mark of Ephesus is all the source I need for that.
The old calendarist Greeks do have a ligitamate stance, but dealing with ignorant priests and fanatic laity is out of the question, for me.
The only group I haven't been involved with is the catacomb churches. They are very secretive and protective.
I think there will be a great metamorphisis in the next 5 years. Things will be very different then and perhaps the choice will be easier to make because the gap will be much more clearer. Right now, it's too close to tell.
Joanna
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
joasia wrote:The only group I haven't been involved with is the catacomb churches. They are very secretive and protective.
A very interesting point, Joanna, after so much world Apostasy, maybe the True Church will have to subsist in the Catacombs...
Many "schisms" and "schismatic" are and they will simply be pursued to believe correctly... and those "churches" that have real pwer they take charge to defaming true believers
I think the fact that the "world orthodox" have departed from the faith in many different ways is well beyond the need to demonstrate. Therefore...
"They that are of the Church of Christ are they that are of the truth; and they that are not of the truth are not of the Church of Christ...for we are reminded that we are to distinguish Christianity not by persons who have ecclesiastical titles, but by the truth and by the exactness of the Faith." -St. Gregory Palamas, Archbishop and Wonderworker of Thessalonika
Even if false hierarchs, while being in heresy, "will succeed in deceiving and enticing a certain number of ignorant ones and in gathering even a considerable number of followers, then they are outside the sacred walls of the Church just the same. But even if very few remain in Orthodoxy and piety, they are in the Church, and the authority and the protection of the ecclesiastical institution resides in them. And if they should suffer for true piety, then this will undoubtedly contribute to their eternal glory and salvation of their souls." - St. Nicephorus the Confessor