Prayer to the Theotokos in Typika

Discuss the holy Mysteries and the liturgical life of the Church such as the Hours, Vespers, Matins/Orthros, Typica, and the Divine Liturgy. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


jimhuffman
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Prayer to the Theotokos in Typika

Post by jimhuffman »

Hello, everyone!

This past Sunday, I was at an Antiochean parish, where the Typica was celebrated, because the priest was at the Antiochean convention. This prayer was in the service:

"A Prayer to the Most Holy Theotokos:

O all-holy Lady Theotokos, light of my darkened soul, my hope, my shelter, my refuge, my consolation, and my joy: I thank thee that thou hast accounted me worthy, although unworthy, to be a partaker of the immaculate Body and precious Bloody of thy Son. But do thou, who gavest birth to the true Light, enlighten the spiritual eyes of my heart. O thou who didst bear the Fountain of immortality, enliven thou me who lie dead in sin. O compassion-loving Mother of the merciful God, have mercy upon me, and grant me humility and contrition of heart, and humility in my thoughts and deliverance from the bondage of my vain imaginings. And account me worthy, even unto my last breath, to receive without condemnation the sanctification of the immaculate mysteries, unto the healing of both soul and body. And grant unto me tears of repentance and confession, that I may hymn thee and
glorify thee all the days of my life, for blessed and glorified are thou
unto all ages. Amen."

As one who is not Orthodox (though I've obviously been studying for some time), I was deeply troubled by this.

I have no difficulty with Mary's praying for us, or with asking for her prayers. But this seems to reach an entirely different level, where the Virgin almost seems like a species of divinity, where she grants mercy, forgiveness, etc., out of her own being, without reference to her Son.

This seems very, very different from the portrait of Mary in the scriptures, which is one of humility, of deference, of one who is the "handmaid of the Lord," and who -- when asked for something in John 2, defers instead to the Savior.

Any thoughts or enlightenment would be deeply appreciated. I am really, really troubled by this, so much that I left the church thinking I would never again go into an Orthodox church. I want to be told if I am wrong.

in Christ,

Jim Huffman

Last edited by jimhuffman on Thu 4 August 2005 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TomS
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Post by TomS »

You are NOT wrong. The Orthodox Church's fabrication of the importance of Mary in our journey to Theosis is a huge corruption of the Faith. In the OC, She is just one-notch below being assigned co-redeemer status. It is wrong.

Unfortunately, the more you delve into the history and evolution of theology as defined by the Church, you will find more inconsistencies. Most of "tradition" is just rules thought up by sinful men in order to obtain power.

----------------------------------------------------
They say that I am bad news. They say "Stay Away."

romiosini

Post by romiosini »

Who am I to tell you if you're right or wrong. But I won't say anything TomS, but you just opened a whole can of worms. Expect a lot of responses from people, or probably none at all...

Peace TomS

Romiosini

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ORPRcamper
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Post by ORPRcamper »

Most of "tradition" is just rules thought up by sinful men in order to obtain power.

Here we go again!

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Reader Benjamin
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Post by Reader Benjamin »

For an Orthodox view of the Theotokos read "The Orthodox Veneration of Mary the Birthgiver of God" by Saint John Maximovitch.

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Romiosini,

You're right...and I'M holding the can of worms.

I am SICK and TIRED of hearing from the ignorant protestants who cannot possibly understand the concept of venerating THE woman who gave birth to our LIVING SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. Venerate...NOT worship. The Christian tradition, and please...to all the ignorant protestants out there, do not get this confused with the papist interpretation....has documented and sustained a faithful history of the Theotokos, in her life and death.

The Holy Bible, gives her a place, in the eyes of the Apostles and Christ, not to mention the events of her life after the events of the Bible and unto her death and ressurection. And to the ignorant protestants out there...there was life after the Bible, because the Bible was not compiled until 325 A.D. So WHAT did the Christians follow if they didn't have the Bible to highlight and underline???

The protestants don't even know what she did after Christ's ressurection. They don't even know how she died. They live in a bubble.

Let go of your prejudices. If Christ, being God, chose to be born of Mary, then He honored her. How do you expect to be with Christ, if you reject His mother? Get it through your stubborn heads...it's not worship...it's respect and honor. Why do you follow one part of the Bible and you refuse to acknowledge the rest? The protestant's interpretation is so lame when it comes to understanding the Bible.

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

jimhuffman
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Post by jimhuffman »

Wow, Joasia, this is almost breathtaking.

Did you read my original post before you launched into this screed?

I honor the Virgin. I know that she prays for us. But I had real problems with the specifics of the liturgy in question, specifically with making her a source of blessings and salvation. I'm trying to make sense of them, in the context of considering Orthodoxy.

Jim Huffman

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