Matthewites

[尼古拉前执事]

Dear Brothers in Christ:

Interesting claim since I believe the Matthewites have a Church inAUstin, as does Father Aiden Keller, whos just left the Milan Synod for ROCOR in the last year. ROCOR also has an all-Slavonic parish in Austin.

Since I live in Austin, TX I can say a little something about things. Our mission, Exaltation of the Holy Cross, is under the jurisdiction of the TOC of Greece (Matthewite persuasion). Our priest is Fr. Stephen Fraser in Phoenix. (His parish web site: www.orthodox-christianity.net)

Our mission originally started in 1998 under ROCOR by 3 families. Eventually a Russian speaking only mission was started by local Russians around 2001. We had the blessing of Bp. Gabriel (Manhattan) and Fr. Seraphim Holland (Dallas) would serve us. A few Russian immigrant familes would surface with us, but eventually several Russians started the other mission without any discussion with us, and invited another priest from Houston who spoke mostly Russian. (most of these families were from the MP while in Russia and would return to MP parishes in Russia. they generally were confused about the matter of ROCOR"s history, ecumenism, and in general were only interested in 'things Russian'.)

St. Hilarion's monastery (Milan synod) originally was Old Catholic, and several things before that as well. they became Orthodox by the cheirothesia of Bps. John in New Jersey and Hilarion of Austin, several years ago. (I'm surprised about hearing of Fr. Aidan's departure to ROCOR...really? I just saw him at St. Hilarion's last year and he has been very loyal to his bishop over all the years.)

In Blanco (40 minutes away) is the Christ of the Hills monastery under Fr. Benedict. They left ROCOR in 1999, or thereabouts. One of the elder Ephrem's Athonite monasteries is a few minutes from there in Kendalia, TX. (about 50 minutes from Austin)

There are 2 Antiochian parishes here and a New Calendar Greek Orthodox parish as well that is quite large.

in Christ,
Nectarios Manzanero

Dear Nectarios,

I always meant to ask since you went from the Russian Church to the Matthewites, did you change your ecclesiology? I mean your priest's site still says they believe that they are the only church and that ROCOR was not and neither wetre the GOC, whom ROCOR gave bishops to. DO you now believe that you were not in the Church when you were in ROCOR and then the ROAC?

[1937 Miraculous Cross]

Dear Nikolaus,

You asked:

I always meant to ask since you went from the Russian Church to the Matthewites, did you change your ecclesiology? I mean your priest's site still says they believe that they are the only church and that ROCOR was not and neither wetre the GOC, whom ROCOR gave bishops to. DO you now believe that you were not in the Church when you were in ROCOR and then the ROAC?

I have not looked at Fr. Stephen Fraser's web site in a while, but I can assure you that he would never say that "we are the only Church". Incidently, the "Matthewites" ...or I should say our bishops have never written this either. They may say that they are the True church of Greece, and that is all they can say, because that is their jurisdicition.

This matter has been hashed elsewhere in the past, typically bringing a storm of "Florinite" condemnation, but I'll risk saying this again. It is the belief of the Matthewites that once the 3 original OC bishops preached and wrote that the New Calendar was without Grace because of the application of the Anathemas against the Gregorian calendar, that only Bp. Matthew remained true to this ecclesiology. The original 3 bishops, including Bp. Chrysostom of Florina were inconsistent and deviated from this ecclesiology, with only Chrys. of Florina returning to it in 1950.

The ROCOR consecration of Akakios the Elder was uncanonical for a multitude of reasons and consisted of 2 participating bishops...one who was New Calendar. Bp. Seraphim (ROCOR) himself later in writing chastized Bp. Auxentios for his unwillingness to attempt to heal things up with the "Matthewite/TOC". (Auxentios was formerly defrocked by the Matthewites) In essence, ROCOR had no business consecrating bishops in Greece when a TOC already existed that was canonical (the Matthewites") Basically, this is our position.

As to whether I was in the Church when in ROCOR or when I was with ROAC, or even when I was in the GOC/Florinites under Bp. Petros, I alway believed I was in the True Church. Now being in the TOC/Matthewite do I believe that the previous jurisdictions were outside the Church? I have no answer. Only God knows this. ( I believe there are some incorrect ecclesiologies in these. however.) Each jurisdiction today can be viewed by another group as being uncanonical in some way or another. Most Matthewites believe we are the most canonical (I know everyone harps on the single handed consecration-- but even that can be backed by Tradition and the Rudder). On the other hand, our relationship to Christ has to be something more than passing a test on chruch history and canon law. I hope that Christ is lenient to all of us because we are trying to live according to His will. The politics of the Church can be deadly.

in Christ,
Nectarios

[Esteban]

Nectarios, thanks for for this most edifying post, which forces us to shift our focus to the One Needful Thing.

[Priest Siluan]

Dear Nikolaus,

You asked:

I always meant to ask since you went from the Russian Church to the Matthewites, did you change your ecclesiology? I mean your priest's site still says they believe that they are the only church and that ROCOR was not and neither wetre the GOC, whom ROCOR gave bishops to. DO you now believe that you were not in the Church when you were in ROCOR and then the ROAC?

I have not looked at Fr. Stephen Fraser's web site in a while, but I can assure you that he would never say that "we are the only Church". Incidently, the "Matthewites" ...or I should say our bishops have never written this either. They may say that they are the True church of Greece, and that is all they can say, because that is their jurisdicition.

This matter has been hashed elsewhere in the past, typically bringing a storm of "Florinite" condemnation, but I'll risk saying this again. It is the belief of the Matthewites that once the 3 original OC bishops preached and wrote that the New Calendar was without Grace because of the application of the Anathemas against the Gregorian calendar, that only Bp. Matthew remained true to this ecclesiology. The original 3 bishops, including Bp. Chrysostom of Florina were inconsistent and deviated from this ecclesiology, with only Chrys. of Florina returning to it in 1950.

The ROCOR consecration of Akakios the Elder was uncanonical for a multitude of reasons and consisted of 2 participating bishops...one who was New Calendar. Bp. Seraphim (ROCOR) himself later in writing chastized Bp. Auxentios for his unwillingness to attempt to heal things up with the "Matthewite/TOC". (Auxentios was formerly defrocked by the Matthewites) In essence, ROCOR had no business consecrating bishops in Greece when a TOC already existed that was canonical (the Matthewites") Basically, this is our position.

As to whether I was in the Church when in ROCOR or when I was with ROAC, or even when I was in the GOC/Florinites under Bp. Petros, I alway believed I was in the True Church. Now being in the TOC/Matthewite do I believe that the previous jurisdictions were outside the Church? I have no answer. Only God knows this. ( I believe there are some incorrect ecclesiologies in these. however.) Each jurisdiction today can be viewed by another group as being uncanonical in some way or another. Most Matthewites believe we are the most canonical (I know everyone harps on the single handed consecration-- but even that can be backed by Tradition and the Rudder). On the other hand, our relationship to Christ has to be something more than passing a test on chruch history and canon law. I hope that Christ is lenient to all of us because we are trying to live according to His will. The politics of the Church can be deadly.

in Christ,
Nectarios

Well, that it is the classic and extreme "Mathewite" position, they believe that those "Florinites" they stopped to exist together with their leader Archb. Chysostomos who I don't consecrate bishops so that they continue him, according to some people He want that all of "Florinites" goes under the omophor of the bishops "Mathewites" and this way to unify Old Calendarist Movement.

But like we know this didn't happen. Then the Mathewitas sustains that the hierarchy settled down by ROCOR is not Florinites but "Akakians" and that they don't have Grace. They also accentuate that one of the bishops that consecrated Bishop Akakios (Romanian Bishop Teofilo Ionescu) was New Calendarist and to tell the truth, years later he left ROCOR to return to the Romanian Patriarcado.

[joasia]

Is this going to be another jurisdictional battlefield??

I can tell you one thing, from a woman's point of view.... if all you men were sitting at the same table, we women in the kitchen would still feed you.

[romiosini]

Is this going to be another jurisdictional battlefield??

I can tell you one thing, from a woman's point of view.... if all you men were sitting at the same table, we women in the kitchen would still feed you.

Well said Sister! Your humour is quite humbling!

[1937 Miraculous Cross]

DEar Fr. Siluan,

I don't really want to continue this thread about the TOC/Matthewites or the GOC/Florinites under this section, as the original post was about the Milan synod. I don't quite understand what you wrote or your intent; however, I'm open to dialogue about this under a new topic heading...your choice.

in Christ,
Nectarios