What to Do When the Bishop is a Heretic

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Stepanov
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What to Do When the Bishop is a Heretic

Post by Stepanov »

Can someone provide me with some patristic references (quotes, links, etc.) on this subject?

Some folks argue that lay persons are supposed to just fall in line when the bishop speaks. If he says jump, our only question should be, "How high?"

I am asking for information on the right response to bishops who are doing and preaching wrong.

Also, can someone provide a link to a web site that tracks the ecumenical activities of "World Orthodoxy"?

I already know about Orthodox Info. Is there another site?

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TomS
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Re: What to Do When the Bishop is a Heretic

Post by TomS »

Stepanov wrote:

I am asking for information on the right response to bishops who are doing and preaching wrong.

How about:

"Excuse me Your Grace, I am simply a layperson, but I feel that it is my job to judge you, a Bishop of The Church. Although I do not have the Faith required to commit my corporeal existence to the life to the Church, as Christ commanded me to, nor the Faith required to slave day and night in the service of this most Holy Body of believers, I feel that my opinions are correct and yours are wrong. So, Anathema! Anathema, I say! And, by the by, would you happen to know the closest Baptist Church in this area?"

That should do it. :?

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Stepanov
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Re: What to Do When the Bishop is a Heretic

Post by Stepanov »

TomS wrote:
Stepanov wrote:

I am asking for information on the right response to bishops who are doing and preaching wrong.

How about:

"Excuse me Your Grace, I am simply a layperson, but I feel that it is my job to judge you, a Bishop of The Church. Although I do not have the Faith required to commit my corporeal existence to the life to the Church, as Christ commanded me to, nor the Faith required to slave day and night in the service of this most Holy Body of believers, I feel that my opinions are correct and yours are wrong. So, Anathema! Anathema, I say! And, by the by, would you happen to know the closest Baptist Church in this area?"

That should do it. :?

I take it your response to Nestorius would have been something like this:

"You are a bishop - in fact, you are the Patriarch of Constantinople - and I am merely a lowly layman. St. Paul believed the Galatians had the ability to judge the true from the false (Gal. 1:8-9) and cautioned them not even to listen to apostles or angels who came contradicting the true Gospel, but I do not have that ability and will listen to anyone in a bishop's hat. I bow to your superior authority and will follow you, even to the jeopardy of my immortal soul."

When, in the mid-4th century, the majority of the sitting hierarchs were Arians, and there was even an Arian "Anti-Pope," Felix, on the throne of St. Peter, you would have deferred to their authority?

Which bishop commanded you to become Orthodox in the first place?

Did you not follow your own heart and conscience to make that decision?

Aren't we called on to judge our bishops?

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Stepanov
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Post by Stepanov »

Let's see, I came to the Orthodox faith because of what I had learned of its beliefs. Having arrived, I now surrender responsibility for my soul to whomever is currently in charge. Mine is not to reason why, etc. If they seem to be contradicting what I know of the faith - even betraying it - nevertheless I will blindly follow, for I am no longer responsible. It would be too "Protestant" of me to think otherwise.

Neither the Scripture, nor the Fathers, nor the history of the Church (including OT Israel) support such an attitude.

Obviously there is more to our ultimate salvation than a single decision, but, just the same, we are responsible.

Each individual reacts to all the influences in his or her life - including the gentle prodding of the Holy Spirit - and makes decisions.

No one becomes Orthodox because some bishop commanded him to.

Likewise, when one commits to the authority of the Church, it is to be hoped he is making that commitment to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church in her fullness - which includes all of the Apostolic Tradition - and not to the current crop of clerics or hierarchs regardless of how faithful or faithless they may be.

That means making judgments, it means being responsible for upholding the faith, even in opposition to bishops, patriarchs and popes, if necessary.

One cannot or should not convert to Orthodoxy only to surrender his judgment to some sort of Latin-style "Magisterium."

We may not be saved alone, but we are responsible for our own souls and to learn to choose the good and reject the evil.

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Liudmilla
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Post by Liudmilla »

Stepanov....

It's that sheep mentality thing that I have always complained about..... We aren't "supposed" to question, we are "supposed" to follow our "shephards". How to deal with bishops who are in error is dealt with only in absolutes and there is not way for a "mere" person to question authority effectively.

There are plenty of canons, but no directions as to where then does one go if one's TRUTH is called into question. The question then becomes "If one is leading us away from truth, what guarantee is there that another won't lead you into ever greater error?" Do we put our trust in a bishop or in GOD?

Milla

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TomS
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Post by TomS »

And what Heresy is this Bishop espousing?

Is he TRULY teaching a Heresy - which I define as what most Orthodox would consider a Heresy - as in teaching against the Trinity, or is this simply another "ecumenist" or "calendar" issue "heresy" ?

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Stepanov
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Post by Stepanov »

TomS wrote:

And what Heresy is this Bishop espousing?

Is he TRULY teaching a Heresy - which I define as what most Orthodox would consider a Heresy - as in teaching against the Trinity, or is this simply another "ecumenist" or "calendar" issue "heresy" ?

Read my OP again.

I wasn't dealing with a specific heresy or a specific bishop. I was asking for some resources that have patristic references about what to do when one's bishop is a heretic.

Pick whatever heresy you find most egregious.

What does one do when one's bishop is a heretic?

I'm also interested in keeping up with developments in the modern ecumenical movement.

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