If Patriarch Diodoros I

Nikodemus · Post by **Nikodemus** » Thu 14 April 2005 8:56 am

I am sorry, that I did not finish my las post. But I want to ask: if Patriach Diodoros I did not have grace, how could he perform the Service of the Holy Fire in Jerusalem?

Sabbas · Post by **Sabbas** » Sun 15 May 2005 8:12 pm

Good question! But at the same time someone could ask since the Pope is the leader of the largest heresy how can he reside at St.John Lateran? It is a question of import but I do not think you will sway the G.O.C to accept that World Orthodoxy may still have Grace though I do understand your point as per the story about the Armenian Patriarch who tried to gain the right to the Holy Fire and the Holy Fire ended up bursting forth from the pillar next to the Orthodox Patriarch.

尼古拉前执事 · Post by **尼古拉前执事** » Sun 15 May 2005 9:04 pm

Some might say that if the JP does not have grace, it appears to show the confused world what the true date of Pascha is.

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Sun 15 May 2005 10:35 pm

The Armenians are the same church as JP since they are in the same communion. So, I could only guess that since there are many Genuine Orthodox Christians who go to see the Holy Fire, it appears for them in spite of the Patriarch. But who could ever explain the Mysteries of God?

Priest Siluan · Post by **Priest Siluan** » Mon 16 May 2005 1:21 pm

The Armenians are the same church as JP since they are in the same communion. So, I could only guess that since there are many Genuine Orthodox Christians who go to see the Holy Fire, it appears for them in spite of the Patriarch. But who could ever explain the Mysteries of God?

I think the same thing that your. Mysteries of God are incomprehensible, as soon as how many sacred relics are in the hands of heretics and schismatic but from there they produce miracles. For example St Nicholas of Myra in Bari. It is that God is merciful and he doesn't want them to be condemned but rather they to be repent and they to be save.

Apologitis · Post by **Apologitis** » Sun 29 May 2005 9:04 am

Christ is risen!

I believe that we are too prejudiced against the Patriarchates and the Churches in communion with them...

The ROCOR and the Cyprianites are recognized by the Serbian Patriarchate as well as the JP! And vice versa. World Orthodoxy isn't godless or satanic. Mt. Athos, the first and foremost orthodox (and old-calendarist) place, belongs to the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Except for the monks of Esphigmenou who say that Elder St. Paisios was a wizard because he would turn on his lamp at night to read, pray or work (supposedly to summon demons). Paisios followed the Scriptures and the Holy Tradition in every detail, was devoted to God and his fellow people, prayed without cessation, observed the Old Calendar and worked miracles without seeking riches or attention.

One of the greatest hymnographers in the history of the Church, Blessed Gerasimos Micragiannanitis, wrote paracletical canons for the monastery of Sts. Cyprian and Justina in Fyli (Athens) as well as for the GOC (!) monastery of St. Irene Chrysovalantou in Lykovrisi (Athens).

World Orthodoxy surely considers the ROCOR and the Cyprianites as having grace. The GOC is another, more complicated story...

Of course, one might correctly say the Patriarch Bartholomew has concelebrated the Liturgy with godless Papists. This is true, but the EP is NOT in communion with Papists! Bartholomew is acting wrong, but so was Bishop Matthew of the GOC when wearing garments with the heretical representation of the Holy Trinity, etc etc. There are no perfect bishops. This doen't mean that the whole Church is condemned!

And about Sergianism. Stalin saw that persecuting the Church and killing 100,000 Holy Martyrs wouldn't help him fight the Germans. Thus he recongized the Moscow Patriachate as a legitimate organization and cooperated with it. Of course, communism still repressed it!

What was the MP supposed to do? Should it have told Stalin, "No, don't recognize us! Persecute us!"? Were all the Byzantine emperors truly devout and christian? Probably not. Does this mean that the Church, that cooperated with them for the salvation of the faithful, was schismatic?

These are my thoughts, dearest brothers in Christ!

Priest Siluan · Post by **Priest Siluan** » Sun 29 May 2005 1:04 pm

XB!

Dear in Christ Apologitis:

I lowly think that your apology originates in erroneous premises.Because then Kiprianites should be in communion EP and ROCOR should in communion with MP, both through SP and JP. On the other hand PatriarchPavle said in several occasions (I remenber a letter to Alexy II) that they do not recognize ROCOR like a canonical Church. If it is true what you say, Now. Whay does ROCOR need to put in communion with MP? If already they is in communion. There is something that is not coherent in your statements, because the Holy Father taught us that we should not be in communion with heretics and schismatic.

Forgive me for my English