Does God care for his church?

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Logos
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Does God care for his church?

Post by Logos »

This thread was inspired by the other one on timeline on the church of the genuine orthodox church.

There is so much confusion here in this world. Everyone is claiming that the hold the truth and Apostolic tradition and unstained by the world. What is one to do? Is not Christ concerned for his church? Will God do anything about this or will He let us play this game as to who holds the truth? All of these schisms in Orthodoxy lead one to confusion. Does not God care in all of this? Will He do anything about it or will we be left with our own devices which have only brought more division and confusion?

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尼古拉前执事
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Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

I think he calls us to pray, to study, fast and learn. Fallen man cause these things to happen. I studied religion hard over many years, it led me to be where I am. There is NO doubt in my mind that Orthodoxy is where it is. Please remeber the schisms are man-made, not God made. People find Orthodoxy every day through investigating the early Church. Often people start in one jurisdiction and as they learn more they go to a more traditional jurisdiction like ROCOR.

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Mary Kissel
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Post by Mary Kissel »

Logos,
Unfortunately, I really don't know how to answer your questions, but I do know that God never gives us more than we can handle. Please don't give up on the Orthodox Church. I think it sounds like you need to talk to your priest and let him know the thoughts you've been having. You will be in my prayers, for what it's worth. Just remember though, the devil loves to cause us to fall into despair by planting doubts in our heads and ejoys when we fall into his web of lies. Don't give him that pleasure.

praying for you!
In Christ,
MaryCecilia

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

logos

Christ is risen!

What is one to do?

I think most would give the same answer, from to Antiochians to ROCORians to ROACians: study, pray, read the Scriptures, work out your salvation, love your neighbor, open yourself to God (be willing to go where he leads), pray some more, follow the Church's practical teachings (e.g., fasting, alms giving, etc.), read spiritual material like the lives of the saints, etc. Even Southern Baptists, Catholics and other such groups would agree with many of these.

I felt much the same way a few years ago: I had gone to a Wesleyan Bible College, and smack dab in the middle of my first year there I realised that I couldn't be a Protestant anymore. Every "choice" (ie. religious group) looked "wrong" to me. What a mess I thought Christianity was, though I also realised (somewhat superficially at the time) that I also was a mess. I think we all go through periods like that, some of us having many such periods.

Again, I think the answer is essentially going to be the same: pray, read scriptures, etc. Everyone that I've read from C.S. Lewis to John Chrysostom say this. As Lewis said in the Screwtape Letters (to paraphrase), it's when you see nothing worth having faith in, when you are so very close to giving up, but you don't: that's when Satan is most defeated. Between the tricks of Satan, and our own fallenness pulling us away from the truth, it's a rough road.

Christ is concerned with his Church. I'm sure of that. I can't prove it, and I'm not even sure that I can explain it. Heck, I am floundering spiritually, I certainly don't personally feel like I'm feeling the fruits of that care! Yet, I know it's true. If things are fallen, if things look bad, if there's division or hate or unnecessary suffering, these things are not because God is negligent. Maybe it is this struggling that will lead to our salvation? Maybe not. Maybe God just allows it because of free-will, because he refuses to hold our hands the entire way through our earthly sojourn? I don't know, but I'm sure that there is a God, and I'm sure he cares.

Will things get better or worse? I don't know. Today is possibly as bad as the fourth century (when there were numerous heresies that had a significant number of adherents), it is possibly better. We are possibly worse than Sodom (or capernaum or tyre), we are possibly a bit better. I can say that if we are in the end times, it would explain the confusion. At the end, just holding to the faith that was given to you will be all that is required for a crown. I don't know that this is the end, but this concept does give some peace of mind, I think. It reminds us that we are not required to go get a PhD in theology and "figure it all out," we are only asked to go "further up and further in" according to our ability (according to the measure of faith God gave to us).

And, as my signature on oc.net sayes, we will be judged by our place in life, and our context. So, we need most beware of that sin which can ruin everything else: falling into despair. Yes, we can ask where we ought to be jurisdiction wise, and where we perhaps shouldn't be, but the most important thing is to live the life in Christ: if we keep our own death constantly in mind (as though it were about to happen) we will not sin, and if we constantly keep God in our mind, we won't want to. I can't do this, but it's perhaps a good goal. It also gives us a context from which to view the discussions about whether there is grace here or heresy there. They are important discussions, but let's get the milk taken care of (let's pray, fast, read the Scriptures, Fathers, etc.) before we think ourselves capable of understanding the meatier stuff.

May God help me heed my own advice!

Justin

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

It's hard to add to some of the responses but perhaps one thing...

I think it important to separate the truth of the Church from all of the jurisdictional claims over it.

With prayer, fasting, study, and breaking your own will, one will soon see that bishops and priests are not rulers, but healers and physicians. One will also see that the teaching of the Church, which is found in Holy Tradition, the writings of the saints, the canons, councils, and many other places, there is one distinct struggle - to preserve that truth. If we want to claim to be a follower of Jesus, we may not be able to physically run after Him or climb a tree like those people of His time, but we can pursue Him by study. How many of us really study every day? But we claim to seek after Him? (I am more guilty of this than anyone)

For instance, how many of us have read St. John Chysostom's treatise on the priesthood? I confess I have not read it entirely. But we think we know what the priesthood is all about?

I have often a strange feeling. When I read the ancient fathers of the church, I find them more relevant to the troubles and problems of our own time than the production of modern "theologians". They really left no issues unanswered, and you can trust that it is Orthodox and not some new idea of a false theologian such as Hopko.

No "jurisdiction" can claim that this truth is theirs, they can only claim to be a part of it. This is why we must each know the truth of Orthodoxy first!

I think it is really quite simple, the difficulty is that it takes love of God, effort, and a lifetime of persistence. Christian wisdom dictates that the precious gift of time be exploited to its maximum in order to inherit eternal life. Our Lord Jesus Christ in His many sermons called upon His followers to value time and to live in constant readiness to give account of our life.

Christos Anesti!

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