A comment on some recent threads..

Ekaterina · Post by **Ekaterina** » Fri 4 February 2005 2:41 pm

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of God.

Katya

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Fri 4 February 2005 5:59 pm

Hello Hkaterina,

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of God.

...which would be distinctly different than judging what is truth and knowledge, I sure hope.

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Sat 5 February 2005 7:45 pm

Dear Sister,

If you are referring to the Sergianists and union with them, then it is a matter of conscience that I speak out against this flawed notion, for it constitutes neither Truth nor Knowledge. The life of a Christian in this world is a constant struggle. Not only must we struggle with the passions, but we must also struggle against heresy and schism. No clever one-liners or a sentimental desire to unite with other Russians can change the history of the Sergianist schism. The persecuted Russian Church is and has always been the Catacomb Church. To spread the pernicious lie that this Church no longer exists is a betrayal of Christ and His Holy Martyrs, and this is precisely the lie one is spreading when one talks of union with World Orthodoxy.

Chrysostomos · Post by **Chrysostomos** » Sat 5 February 2005 9:08 pm

Truth and Knowledge is rather lived, than merely spoken. St. Paul spoke well about this to our ancestor Orthodox Christians the Corinthians: "And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing".

Show me your love, by your humility, by your way of life according to the commandments of Christ, by your giving of yourself to others, to the poor, the widow and the orphan. Give generously to the feeding of those who are without by your almsgiving, then after doing so, then speak to me, if you still have time after doing so, about the evils of World Orthodoxy. I remember our Lord, came upon a woman caught in adultery. Surely, he should have picked up a stone himself and cast it at her. The law demanded it! It was in the "Canon" of their day. Yet, Christ-God Himself, showed mercy. My brother, do likewise.

I ask, which is worst, the woman commiting adultery, or the Sergianism of the past. The gospel doesn't record whether or not she repented of her sin, but we do know that Jesus said, neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more. To the Sergianism that took place during the communist regime, should we not say, go and sin no more? I know, I know, you say, but they need to repent. They have to say it! I ask this with all sincerity, do you pray for "that" church on a daily basis, for the Patriarch of Moscow, for their bishops that they will turn to God and repent? Or do you, like myself many times, say things like this, but merely give lip service, and haven't prayed for whomever it is that one choses to condemn. When I have condemn or judged someone because they didn't meet my expectations, I always feel a sense of superiority. It is quite comforting in a "worldly sense".

You did bring up something for me to ponder though....

You said:"To spread the pernicious lie that this Church no longer exists is a betrayal of Christ and His Holy Martyrs".

For this I thank you. For it made me think of my life as an Orthodox Christian. That I stand as a betrayer of Christ and His Holy Martyrs daily, as I do not live out fully the life Christ has called me to. How can I condemn something that took place in the past, when I, sinful as I am, cannot live without sin in my life for even one day.

Of course, I am part of the "World Orthodoxy" since I go to an OCA Church. Perhaps if I attended your jurisdiction, I would be able to not sin on a daily basis. But alas that is probably another opportunity for me to fall into prelest. If it were only as simple as that. Attend our juridiction, and your salvation is guaranteed. It is the "True" Jurisdiction! You see, I believe in the Eastern Orthodox Faith that Christ himself established. I believe that we are the best examples of that "living faith" by being who Christ called us to be as Orthodox Christians. I am against, ecumenism, I am opposed to many things and agree with many of the concerns that are voiced. The challenge I have, and it is mine alone I assume, is that the Jurisdictions that "proclaim" to be the "True" Jurisdiction seem to be so arrogant in their tone, a sense of superiority rises from them. I guess this "World Orthodoxy" thing is sort of a spiritual leprosy. Don't get near it, as you might get infected. I understand really. While I was in Okinawa, Japan, I went with a group of "Christians" to feed and minister to the lepers on an island off the main island. We gather around, prayed, and then they sat with their "kind" and we "Christians" sat with our kind, eating, not really talking to one another. We all really felt uncomfortable. It was evident that we were fearful of coming in contact and getting leprosy. It kind of reminds me of what is going on in these discussions. Rather than embracing the lepers with love, and truly going and "embracing them", we distanced ourselves. Rather than having faith that God would preserve us, we preserved ourselves. I know, kind of Phariseical on our part, but the truth hurts and I might as well admit it.

That's why I don't frequently comment on the board. Who am I? Just another struggler who desires deification and is trying, by God's grace, to obtain it. It is a struggle isn't it? That's why I try to follow the therapy prescribed by the Orthodox Faith. I have to be honest though, I many times forget to "take" the prescription as prescribed. I do some things, and not others.

May God grant us all the grace and "spritual" preception to seperate the "wheat" issues of the Christian life, from the "chaff".

With humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos

Liudmilla · Post by **Liudmilla** » Sun 6 February 2005 4:08 pm

It certainly amazes me as to how people read into things, sometimes even unbelievably.

Sean, it seems to me that you are perhaps suffering a bit from "оправдание" .... Russian --- inadequately translated as justification but actually quite a bit more. I was always taught that this is a sin.

Don't get me wrong, I am not "for" unification, personally I think it's a mistake. How-some-ever .... As Orthodox Christians we are supposed to forgive a "sin" without the other side having to beg for it. Seems to me that is what we are requiring with this whole Sergianism thing.

Some would say that they would never have gone along with it in the first place, but it is difficult to say what anyone would have really done if they found themselves in the same spot. And I cannot accept the answer, "I would never..." because until you are there and under the "gun" (so to speak) you cannot with absolute certainty say that you wouldn't. All you can do is hope that you have the strength necessary.

As to the unification thing.....
I'm genuinely confused. Sometimes this whole mess is referred to as unification and sometimes it's refered to as con-celebration. I wish that some one (who knows for sure) would clarify this one point.

Milla

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Sun 6 February 2005 6:18 pm

Liudmilla,

I agree. But, as I've said before...the clergy and the hierarchs should answer for the confusion we are in.

They are the ones that should set it straight. Because, they are the ones that are allowing the confusion.

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Sun 6 February 2005 6:49 pm

joasia wrote:
Liudmilla,

I agree. But, as I've said before...the clergy and the hierarchs should answer for the confusion we are in.

They are the ones that should set it straight. Because, they are the ones that are allowing the confusion.

It seems to me that are being clear; you just don't like what you are hearing. ROCOR is actively moving towards reunion with the MP whether the laity likes it or not.

So what will the "truly faithful" do? More than likely -- form another SCHISM! But what they SHOULD be doing is trusting their Bishops (who HAVE been in intimate talks with the MP).