I came across this in a book by Fr. Seraphim Rose, a reference to St. John the Baptist descending into Hell to preach the coming of Christ. What are the sources for this account?
And in this case too, it seems that it shoud read "Hades," not "Hell" right? The terms appear to be commonly used interchangeably. I might just be confused.
Ephraem
~He who seeth his own sins, seeth not the sins of others.
Ephraem wrote:I came across this in a book by Fr. Seraphim Rose, a reference to St. John the Baptist descending into Hell to preach the coming of Christ. What are the sources for this account?
And in this case too, it seems that it shoud read "Hades," not "Hell" right? The terms appear to be commonly used interchangeably. I might just be confused.
Yes, it is more correct to say "Hades" in English.
This Tradition comes from the Apocryphal account of "The Harrowing of Hades" in the "Gospel of Nicodemos".
Gospel of Nicodemos- The Harrowing of Hades- Chapter 2 (18 ).
O Lord Jesus Christ, the resurrection and the life of the world, grant us grace that we may give an account of Thy resurrection, and Thy miracles which Thou didst in Hades. We then were in Hades, with all who had fallen asleep since the beginning of the world. And at the hour of midnight there rose a light as if of the sun, and shone into these dark regions; and we were all lighted up, and saw each other. And straightway our father Abraham was united with the patriarchs and the prophets, and at the same time they were filled with joy, and said to each other: This light is from a great source of light. The prophet Hesaias, who was there present, said: This light is from the Father, and from the Son, and from the Holy Spirit; about whom I prophesied when yet alive, saying, The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, the people that sat in darkness, have seen a great light.
Then there came into the midst another, an ascetic from the desert; and the patriarchs said to him: Who art thou? And he said: I am John, the last of the prophets, who made the paths of the Son of God straight, and proclaimed to the people repentance for the remission of sins. And the Son of God came to me; and I, seeing Him a long way off, said to the eople: Behold the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sin of the world. And with my hand I baptized Him in the river Jordan, and I saw like a dove also the Holy Spirit coming upon Him; and I heard also the voice of God, even the Father, thus saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And on this account He sent me also to you, to proclaim how the only begotten Son of God is coming here, that whosoever shall believe in Him shall be saved, and whosoever shall not believe in Him shall be condemned. On this account I say to you all, in order that when you see Him you all may adore Him, that now only is for you the time of repentance for having adored idols in the vain upper world, and for the sins you have committed, and that this is impossible at any other time.
"As long as it depends on Monothelitism, then Miaphysitism is nothing but a variant of Monophysitism."
"Hades" and "hell" are not at all interchangeable, they are very different things.
Orthodox believe that nobody has been judged, with few exceptions, and that when you die, you go to Hades where you await final judgment (and taste what that might be). This is where Christ preached for three days after His crucifixion.
Hell on the other hand, is a place or state where a person has been judged and self-condemned, and where Satan and his demons hang out.
George, thank you for the info on the Gospel of Nicodemos.
Orthodox believe that nobody has been judged, with few exceptions
Who are the exceptions?
Regarding Hell and Hades, the distinction is clear, yet I find it curious that Fr. Seraphim Rose would have misused the term "Hell." Perhaps it was because he was speaking before a public audience who were probably not very familiar with Orthodoxy and wanted to keep it simple.
There's something else that I'm not quite clear on. In relation to Hades there is the Paradise, which was opened to man at the death of Christ, and into which the thief was the first to enter. This seems to be different than Heaven which is the destination of those in Christ after the final judgement. So those in Christ depart to Paradise and wait for the final judgement? Or do we go to the "first class, non-smoking" part of Hades?
Ephraem
~He who seeth his own sins, seeth not the sins of others.
OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:"Hades" and "hell" are not at all interchangeable, they are very different things.
Orthodox believe that nobody has been judged, with few exceptions, and that when you die, you go to Hades where you await final judgment (and taste what that might be). This is where Christ preached for three days after His crucifixion.
Hell on the other hand, is a place or state where a person has been judged and self-condemned, and where Satan and his demons hang out.
I think we should be careful how we say this. According to Orthodox understanding, even Heaven and Hell are not "very different things". The Divine Energy which the Saints experience as theosis is the same Divine Energy which those in Gehenna experience as torment. "in" Heaven and "in" Hell does not mean that they are different places, because there is no space or time in Eternity. They indicate different experiences of the same thing.
Hades is the state where everyone who dies is in. In the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, they both end up in Hades- Lazarus experiences it as the "bosom of Abraham" while the Rich Man experiences it as torment. The "gulf" between them is a spiritual one- since they are not in a "place".
The English word "Hell" comes from the Old English word "helan" which means "to hide" or "to cover". The impure souls in Hades were understood to be attempting "hide themselves" or "take cover" from the Divine Presence because they experience It as torment. In the same way that Moses, Abraham and the Prophets hid their faces when they percieved the Divine Energy or "Shechinah glory" of God, and the way that people will attempt to hide from God on the Day of Judgement (Apocalypse 6:16 ) and the way Adam and Eve attempted to hide from God's Presence after their sin (Genesis 3: 9 ). It was only later that the erroroneous belief that Hell was a place where souls are "cut off" or "hidden" from the Presence of God was adopted by the West.
Similarly, the English word "brimstone" or "sulfur" is a translation of the Greek word "theion" which means both "sulfur" and "divine being". When we burn sulfur, it gives off a bright light and intense heat which is difficult to look at. The lake of fire and brimstone can equally be translated as the lake of Divine Energy and the Presence of God. Both the Saints and the damned experience the Divine Light and Heat of the Energy of God. However they experience this differently- the flames which left the Three Hebrew Children in the firey furnace unharmed were the same flames which consumed those who looked into the furnace.
2 Thess 1:7-9 translates literally from the Greek as the faithful will, "get relief at the revelation of the Lord Jesus coming out from heaven with His powerful angels in flames of fire". However, this same presence of Jesus causes the ones persecuting the faithful to "…be punished with everlasting destruction because of the presence of the Lord, and because of His mighty glory"
Hades and Hell are not different "places", because they are not places, and one can also say that Hell is an experience of Hades which we have allowed ourselves to be in.
Neither the Saints nor the damned experience the fullness of Paradise and Hell yet- these will come when "Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire" (Apocalypse 20 12-14 ) after the General Ressurection.
"As long as it depends on Monothelitism, then Miaphysitism is nothing but a variant of Monophysitism."
Ephraem wrote:Who are the exceptions?
The Theotokos would be one exception as we see from the Traditions, Hymns and the Icon dypicting her Dormition. Other exceptions would be those who were also translated like Enoch (Genesis 5:24) and Elijah (IV Kings 2:11)
Ephraem wrote:Regarding Hell and Hades, the distinction is clear, yet I find it curious that Fr. Seraphim Rose would have misused the term "Hell." Perhaps it was because he was speaking before a public audience who were probably not very familiar with Orthodoxy and wanted to keep it simple.
Perhaps, but it may also be that those in Hades before the death of Christ and His harrowing of Hades could be said to be "in Hell", that is, unable to bear the Divine Light because they were awaiting the forgiveness of their sins through Christ's sacrifice.
Ephraem wrote:There's something else that I'm not quite clear on. In relation to Hades there is the Paradise, which was opened to man at the death of Christ, and into which the thief was the first to enter. This seems to be different than Heaven which is the destination of those in Christ after the final judgement. So those in Christ depart to Paradise and wait for the final judgement? Or do we go to the "first class, non-smoking" part of Hades?
Like Hell or Gehenna, Paradise can be understood as the partial experience after death of the joy of Heaven which will be fully experienced after the General Ressurection.
The Penitent Thief would be in Paradise "that day" because Christ died (and harrowed Hades) before the Penitent Thief died (John 19:32-33).
In all this, we must remember that we are using earthly words to describe matters beyond our own immediate experience and which exist in Eternity. The Divine Apostle Paul was "caught up to the Thrid Heaven" and experienced the City of God which is "Paradise" and he "heard inexpressable words which it is not lawful for a man to utter." ( IICorinthians12:18 ). The Highest Heaven (the "third Heaven" which is the Jewish term St. Paul employs to describe his experience) would suggest that there is a first and second one- but whether there is, and what they contain we just don't know.
"As long as it depends on Monothelitism, then Miaphysitism is nothing but a variant of Monophysitism."
Hades and Hell are not different "places", because they are not places, and one can also say that Hell is an experience of Hades which we have allowed ourselves to be in.
Neither the Saints nor the damned experience the fullness of Paradise and Hell yet- these will come when "Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire" (Apocalypse 20 12-14 ) after the General Ressurection.
In not so many words I was just trying to draw some/any kind of conclusion that there is a vast difference between Hades and Hell. But you answer is better for sure. 
