Waldemar asks, What if St. Ambrose is still sticking around?

Waldemar · Post by **Waldemar** » Fri 28 May 2004 11:33 am

St. Ambrose of Optina said:

"Remember that Elders, even after death, do not abandon their monasteries."

If St. Ambrose is still hanging out at Optina, and Optina is still under the MP, does that make St. Ambrose a heretic without grace?

Seraphim Reeves · Post by **Seraphim Reeves** » Fri 28 May 2004 11:55 am

If you want to force the matter, I could ask the same of St.Benedict.

Of course, it's entirely possible both are praying for repentence to come to their descendents...

Seraphim

Waldemar · Post by **Waldemar** » Fri 28 May 2004 12:15 pm

Is it possible that St. Ambrose is praying for the repentance of the ROAC as well?

Waldemar · Post by **Waldemar** » Fri 28 May 2004 12:21 pm

St. Ambrose did not abandon his monasteries, whereas ROAC declares his monasteries to be heretical and without grace.

It seems to me that faithlessness is more of an impediment to the grace of God than geography.

Vicki · Post by **Vicki** » Fri 28 May 2004 6:15 pm

But who then is under whom?

Is the current, err, um, regime...under St. Ambrose, in terms of obedience, and therefore disobedient to a sanctified elder, OR does St. Ambrose, having "retired"...ummm reposed...remain obedient to the current regime, as an Elder who was once abbot would place himself in obedience to a new abbot?

Is a puzzlement....but surely, one that needs puzzling over before one determines whether they are GRACELESS....

Vicki

photi · Post by **photi** » Sat 29 May 2004 12:16 am

Ahh, good ol' Saint Benedict. :mrgreen:
As an RC, I was this /----/ close to becoming a benedictine monk.
They were even going to let me brong all my secular stuff (electric guitar) with me when I entered.
Ahh, asceticism!
:thwack:
Sorry for the digression!

Waldemar · Post by **Waldemar** » Sat 29 May 2004 9:30 am

Lot, for his hospitality and his piety, was brought safely out of Sodom, when fire and brimstone were raining down judgement on all the region round about. Moreover, on that occasion the Lord made it plain that, while He never forsakes those who place their hopes on Him, He visits pains and penalties on the rebellious; and as a sign of this, Lot's wife, who has accompanied him in his flight, but later changed her mind and fell out with him, was turned into a pillar of salt to this day. That was to let all men see how doubt and distrust of God's power bring a judgement upon themselves, and become a warning to future generations.

From: The First Epistle Of St. Clement of Rome To The Corinthians

In other words: "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

The "without grace" pronouncers doubt and distrust God's power.

Where can one find fidelity in faithlessness?