Toll houses

[Gideon]

Can anyone help explain just what toll houses are?

[尼古拉前执事]

Welcome Gideon! Have you read Father Seraphim Rose's book, The Soul After Death? We are discussing it below and it discusses and explains the toll houses.

I have to head to church for the Great Canon, but will come back later to try and explain it more.

[Justin Kissel]

I spent an hour typing out a response and then my computer had an error and I lost it. This in spite of the fact that I had copied it before I tried to post it... when I tried to recopy it after I opened up a new browser window, it was nowhere to be found.

I'm sorry, it is because of my own sinfulness (frustration and inability to persevere) that is at fault. Hopefully Nicholas can help, I simply don't have the patience to type out again what I had... at least right at this moment.

[Seraphim Reeves]

One reason why I believe many people (including many Orthodox Christians) have trouble understanding the concept of the "toll houses", is because they have assumed that Orthodox Christianity holds (more or less) to the eschatology of traditional Protestantism or Roman Catholicism. Both of those religions (Protestantism coming out of the RC tradition) more or less hold to the view that when a man dies, he is subject to a particular judgement, and assigned to either Heaven or Hell (and in the case of the RC's, many assigned to Heaven will have to pass through Purgatory first.)

However, these views are based upon interpretations of the tradition of the Church that were only well developed later on, and certainly cannot be said to stand as a "matter of fact" via the Scriptures alone.

This is why, to some degree, the Orthodox Church entertains a lot of uncertainty regarding just what precisely happens to people when they die (that is to say, between the time of death and the ressurection on the Last Day.) Just as it is in the Bible, Orthodox Christianity's emphasis is on the fact that all men will be raised from the dead at the end of the world, with bodies reflecting their spiritual condition; thus in a sense, all men have been saved (since all will be raised from the unnatural state of death, whether they lived pious, grace filled lives, or were unrepentant sinners.) The Bible has precious little to say about what happens when a person dies, though what little is presented is certainly food for thought (for example, the parable of Lazarus and Dives, or scattered references to the dead found in the Old Testament or the epistles of St.Paul).

I think what is clear, is that the Orthodox tradition has it's own views on the afterlife, which differ from what has come to be accepted almost as dogma in the Christian west. This includes the idea that perhaps there is some "hang time" between a person dying, and beginning to participate in the reward to come (since so called "heaven" or "hell" in Orthodox Christianity, for those who have reposed, is only a foretaste of their destiny on the Last Day - neither final redemption nor final condemnation will truly have taken place until Christ comes again in glory to judge the living and the dead.) Saints who have spoken on the subject, are quite clear in saying that the process of dying is a trying time, both before and after one has expired. The demons swarm around the dead, hoping to destroy their hope and cloud their hearts with dispair for their condition. It also seems, that they also seek out men after they've died, and continue to accuse them (indeed, the very name "satan" is Hebrew for "the accuser").

Of course it's not the actual demons who judge souls (something critics of the "toll houses" teachings have falsely ascribed to it's more adamant proponents, such as the late Fr.Seraphim of Platina), nor should the description of them as manning "toll houses" be taken too literally (rather, it is fitting symbolism to describe what it is these wicked spirits are attempting to do to the departed as they leave this life.) In addition, if one dies in the peace of Christ, these demons will be powerless to harm the soul of the departed.

What is perhaps debatable, is how literally the assent of the soul towards God's judgement should be taken. On one end, you'd have someone like the late Fr.Seraphim who seems to have understood a literally aerial assent quite literally, citing St.Paul's statement that the demons are "powers" who are in the "air." There are others, who interpret this in a very allegorical way. I'm inclined to think Fr.Seraphim's view is more representative of the tradition (if I've understood his position correctly), since it seems less infected by the skepticism and fear of seeming "supersticious" that many modern "Christian scholars" are prone to (some being such that they consider it "backward" or unenlightened to be Orthodox and reject evolutionism; which is funny since the Fathers were definatly "creationists", if perhaps not quite in the same way that many modern Protestants are.) The Old Testament definatly presents a world view where good and evil spirits can be found in the dimensions of the material world, and I do not think it's for nothing that the ancient Israelites prayed looking up to shamay'm ("heaven", which literally means the skys) - this is not to say God is limited to a particular place, but the Scriptures seem clear that in the created order (though this does not mean it's a material place confined to the three dimensional universe as we commonly experience it) God has established a court, from which He reigns and where the Angels congregate to adore Him (and that they come and go from this place to visit men.)

Seraphim

[demetrios karaolanis]

you may find this site useful as well

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/death/soul_taxing.htm

hop you learn from it

[尼古拉前执事]

See a much longer and in depth discussion on this at http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/vi ... .php?t=506