Elder Joseph the Cave-Dweller Was Not True Orthodox

[haralampopoulosjc]

This claim seems to be made by former members of HOCNA who still hold to some version of the "Boston ecclesiology" of Fr. Panteleimon Metropoulos which states that the Church of Greece and Patriarchate of Constantinople only fell from grace in 1965 due to the lifting of the anathemas and not in 1924 with the calendar change. How convenient for HOCNA given that they only left GOARCH in 1965 due to the fact that Fr. Panteleimon was being investigated for sexual abuse.

Elder Joseph the Cave-Dweller clearly DID leave Metropolitan Chrysostom of Florina's synod in 1950 after he issued his encyclical declaring the New Calendarist State Church as graceless. He resumed commemorating the Patriarch of Constantinople shortly afterward.

[eish]

I'll let more knowledgeable people argue the disputed details.

What I do know is that with a large number of WO elders, there is a cultus around the elder. It sometimes feels as if someone tries to force it into True Orthodoxy with dubious claims of the elder being one of us, seemingly because they are emotionally attached and do not want to let go. Also it sometimes feels like there is an ethnic pride thing around saints of their country. Exactly which ones are real I will not comment on. It is, however, very obvious in the case of “saints” discovered by New Calendarists in their dreams, which then get added to the calendars of TO groups. That needs to stop.

I'm also okay with it if we don't add elders to the calendar when there is cause for uncertainty. World Orthodoxy is trying to present heretical teaching as a consensus of the “Fathers” by populating the calendar as quickly as possible with newly invented “Fathers.” Since we are not trying to do that, we have no reason to copy their practice of rapid and hasty glorifications. In fact, we should call out the reason they are doing it as evidence against them. We don't need to have an answer to every question of whether someone is a saint. Sometimes we don't know.

[haralampopoulosjc]

The confusion over who is a saint and who isn't is caused by all of the True Orthodox synods not respecting the tradition of waiting a hundred years after someone's repose before considering them for canonization.

Unfortunately, the GOC-Kallinikos has canonized almost a dozen saints over the past ten years, some of whom are controversial among other True Orthodox synods.

[Barbara]

VERY interesting ! Thank you both ! This topic is of central importance.

I won't ask eish as he already declined to specify.

But Haralampopoulosjc, of which saints are you thinking here ? Really valuable for all the readers out there on the internet. As well as for myself !

[haralampopoulosjc]

I'm referring to the GOC-Kallinikos canonizing Chrysostom of Florina, Hieronoymos of Parthini, Hieromartyr Joseph of Desfina, Elder John the New Almsgiver of Amfiali and the Elder Ieronymos of Aegina.

I actually agree that most of these glorifications were justified, however official canonization is not necessary for veneration (Saint John Chrysostom has never been officially canonized), and officially glorifying someone like Chrysostom of Florina who's still a controversial figure within True Orthodoxy could lead to complications in the future for greater unity among the Greek TO (I'm thinking about the Matthewites here specifically).

[Barbara]

Thank you ! That helps a lot, though I don't recognize some of the names you mentioned.

We need to pinpoint who is questionable so that incoming people will know fully what the situation is in any particular Synod before they decide to join.

I'll have to look up some of the ones. Met Chrysostom I had forgotten about - when did the GOC-K glorify him ? That was really....

[haralampopoulosjc]

Close to ten years ago now: https://nftu.net/goc-k-to-hold-glorific ... rina-1955/