MP seems to want to glorify Sergius

[NektariosLopez]

Old video but I figured it would be good to post it on here for reference/archive if anyone tries to deny how the MP really feels

[SavaBeljovic]

I like what Fr. Antonios in Texas told me and Fyodor when we visited him: "I hope they rip off the band-aid and go ahead and glorify Sergius. Then they won't be able to deny they're Sergianists!"

I hate to be pessimistic and seem like I am cheering for the downfall of the WO -- God forbid -- but at the same time, the cognitive dissonance of certain WO on matters such as communion with Rome and Sergianism is an untenable position.

[abrown0812]

Personally, I hope it does happen. It will further separate the wheat from the chaff. The lines are too easily blurred nowadays, despite numerous reasons they shouldn't be. A friend of mine in ROCA-MP told me that he would join True Orthodoxy if the MP officially glorifies Sergius. I don't know why the evidence that currently exists doesn't convince him, but something drastic might be necessary to get people to make a decision.

[NektariosLopez]

I like what Fr. Antonios in Texas told me and Fyodor when we visited him: "I hope they rip off the band-aid and go ahead and glorify Sergius. Then they won't be able to deny they're Sergianists!"

I hate to be pessimistic and seem like I am cheering for the downfall of the WO -- God forbid -- but at the same time, the cognitive dissonance of certain WO on matters such as communion with Rome and Sergianism is an untenable position.

I understand the sentiment to be hopeful but I agree with Fr Antonios.
Short of blatantly proclaiming, “we’re proud sergianist and/or ecumenists,” WO are hanging onto that last single thread as their “hope” even though everything else points to them being enemies of God and His Church. These bishops operate on deception and they want to plant the seed to prepare the soil for accepting it when they come out and say “yeah so what, you’ve all known for so long.”
In this manner they’re far more dangerous.

I have noticed some people are now, and it happened to me personally with arguing with those in ROCOR, sympathetic for MP asking me, “is being in the world council of churches really a bad thing.” Others did admit “yeah the MP is a really bad man but he’s not a heretic and even if he was it doesn’t affect us in ROCOR.” So perhaps more people are getting prepared to either fully accept these types of antichrists.

[SavaBeljovic]

Personally, I hope it does happen. It will further separate the wheat from the chaff. The lines are too easily blurred nowadays, despite numerous reasons they shouldn't be. A friend of mine in ROCA-MP told me that he would join True Orthodoxy if the MP officially glorifies Sergius. I don't know why the evidence that currently exists doesn't convince him, but something drastic might be necessary to get people to make a decision.

I hear many such threats of if X will happen, I will join True Orthodoxy or Y etc., unfortunately I have seen many such threats and plans for mass exodus fall through. You can look up how many people threaten to leave the ROCOR if they joined the MP, and how very few of them actually did. Perhaps that is a bad example, as a large number of people did leave.

Another example is how many people threaten to leave the EP after Crete 2016... And how few actually did. Or how many people these days say "I'll leave if there is communion with Rome" or such... Well, I have news for them...

Fr. Mark here in Louisiana explained how they did the "Anschluss" perfectly, as he was already in the ROAC by the time it happened, a woman in New York who lives at the New Martyrs Convent (ROCANA) also explained the same thing; there was such a fuss about it, and everyone said "oh how could it be done? There is no way this can be done!", so how did they manage to do it?

They just did it.

No fanfare, no big statement or attempts to really convince anyone, it just happened. And then all the traitors could go and tell everyone "see? It wasn't a big deal!". This is also how the OCA managed to do things like switch to the New Calendar, or if you see this exact spiel after Ravenna 2002 with the EP.

A good thing is that all these events do convince some people, however small the group may be, to become True Orthodox. Perhaps "world Orthodoxy' will go the way of "death by a thousand paper cuts" so to speak.

[SavaBeljovic]

I like what Fr. Antonios in Texas told me and Fyodor when we visited him: "I hope they rip off the band-aid and go ahead and glorify Sergius. Then they won't be able to deny they're Sergianists!"

I hate to be pessimistic and seem like I am cheering for the downfall of the WO -- God forbid -- but at the same time, the cognitive dissonance of certain WO on matters such as communion with Rome and Sergianism is an untenable position.

I understand the sentiment to be hopeful but I agree with Fr Antonios.
Short of blatantly proclaiming, “we’re proud sergianist and/or ecumenists,” WO are hanging onto that last single thread as their “hope” even though everything else points to them being enemies of God and His Church. These bishops operate on deception and they want to plant the seed to prepare the soil for accepting it when they come out and say “yeah so what, you’ve all known for so long.”
In this manner they’re far more dangerous.

I have noticed some people are now, and it happened to me personally with arguing with those in ROCOR, sympathetic for MP asking me, “is being in the world council of churches really a bad thing.” Others did admit “yeah the MP is a really bad man but he’s not a heretic and even if he was it doesn’t affect us in ROCOR.” So perhaps more people are getting prepared to either fully accept these types of antichrists.

I was speaking to a few of our dearest brothers recently who asked me what I think will happen to the "fighting from within" movement. I was a Roman Catholic before I became Orthodox. I was raised in a Novus Ordo parish and began to realize how much of the liturgical tradition had been stripped out of the RCC and how much modernism was introduced. Being young and idealistic, I decided to join the SSPX.

SSPX is very similar to the FFW ecclesiology in many ways, they declare the Novus Ordo to be "illicit but not illegal", have their own understanding of how the seat of Rome works even if they're in heresy. They even have their own "marble king" with prophecies about the King of France returning to restore Latin Rite...

After seeing with my own eyes how inconsistent SSPX is with what modernism they will accept versus what they won't, I started to look at the history of groups "resisting within Rome". I found that all of them, without exception, had failed.

They all either ended up being condemned as heretics and persecuted, or they compromised and capitulated to Rome and became irrelevant. Some of them even tried to do their own thing and eventually became irrelevant! (Like these modern Sedevacantists are doomed to become, if Vladyka Enoch isn't right about them all ending up as Conclavists)

Rome and the East is much different, but I do think what will eventually happen is this FFW types will either have to become True Orthodox, or they will end up accepting Ecumenism. Sadly, I see the latter as being the more common solution for many people. There is already seeds being planted for these people to end up accepting Ecumenism.

[Agios_Irineos]

but I do think what will eventually happen is this FFW types will either have to become True Orthodox, or they will end up accepting Ecumenism. Sadly, I see the latter as being the more common solution for many people. There is already seeds being planted for these people to end up accepting Ecumenism.

Isn't it true though that for those who have not actually become non-commemorators, but remain and commune while they "FFW" they really have already accepted Ecumenism. They either don't believe it to be heresy, or they believe their heresy and grace abide one with the other.

And from my observation, the number of FFW who are actually non-commemorators is a very, very small subset of the whole.