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OrthodoxyOrDeath

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Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

I am pasting this from another site...just some interesting comments which anyone who has been in the GOA can relate to.

The sad fact is that Greek Orthodoxy in America has deviated severely from her path in the very few years of this Archdiocese's life. One needs only observe events at his local parish level to realize this. I point out some personal observations made at five to six parishes that I have been a part of in the last twenty plus years.

Our faithful are, for the most part, completely ignorant of their Faith, often quoting heretical ideas that they heard from others, not being able to distinguish between Orthodox and Catholic theology.

The Liturgy has been shortened to accommodate the Sunday, post-Liturgy entertainment "needs" of the faithful (NFL, NBA, soccer leagues or plain coffee hour socializing). The post-Liturgy coffee hour is almost as long as our Liturgy.

There exist churches where the parish coffee "lounge" is in the basement of the church where gossiping, dancing, eating and other questionable activities take place right under the Holy Altar.

Holy Communion has become “Sunday morning candy” for most. One observes men and women approaching to partake of His Body and Blood with gum in their mouth, hands in pockets and questionable attire. Women show up in provocative and scandalizing attire, from super mini skirts, all the way to bare back outfits and dresses held up by thin straps. Most important, priests accept it all, saying nothing (even when the faithful complain) and instead go after older Greek women who wish to wear scarves while in Church.

Fasting and confession have become too Orthodox for most. I have seen cream cheese and bagels offered during Lent (at the coffee social) and I hear priests tell the faithful that they should only come to confession only if something they have done is bad and really bothers them. My priest friends even tell me how, quite often they are scandalized by their fellow clergymen who do not keep the Wednesday/Friday fast (or even the fasts of Great Lent or Advent) and make them feel guilty or “weird” if they do!

Our priests come out of the seminaries full of the modern psychology theories, with fully protestant views, taught very little about the Church Fathers and fully unprepared to lead flocks. Their sermons are full of antitheses and heretical ideas. I have heard one repeatedly eulogize mother Teresa (as if we run short of Orthodox saints). Another prominent graduate calls the symbol of Byzantium “burnt chicken” and he tells us that this title was common among his colleagues. Another one informs his flock that Christ was not really perfect until after He died on the Cross. Finally, one brought a Catholic Bishop during Liturgy and placed him on the Orthodox Bishop's throne.

Oh, and then we have the organ accompanied choirs, or as I call them “group of want-to-be opera singers”. They make a mockery of Byzantine chanting. I will never forget the case of a (musically gifted) priest who took it upon himself to write his own Doxology...

The majority of parishes are fostering an anti-Hellenic spirit which is rapidly removing anything Greek from within the parish. Naturally, for three days of the year, they all become excellent Greeks during the annual Greek Festival when budget dictates they undertake a pretentious role and praise their heritage. On Monday it is all cleaned up, the Greek paper flags are in the trash and we are back to criticizing anything Hellenic.

Priesthood has become just another profession, and a well paying one at that. Priests make close to $100,000 (before any “gifts”), offer a limited (usually two) liturgies per week and are mostly pre-occupied with the wants and needs of the community’s self-declared (wealthy and loud) leaders. These are usually a few wealthy parishioners who equate their worldly success with the right to throw their weight around in all facets of the church’s business, including liturgical aspects! They are commonly described as the "I paid for the church building so do what I say", good ole boys...

The attire of most priests outside of the Church is very un-Orthodox. One can count in two hands the number of priests that wear their rassa off Church premises. There exist Orthodox jurisdictions where the rassa-wearing priests are threatened with suspension if they refuse to conform.

The concept of Christian Love is prevalent within the sermons of most priests without a clear understanding of the spiritual values of either Christ’s Love or all other theological aspects of the miracle we call Orthodoxy.

George
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Post by George »

:o This made for very sad reading.

Logos
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Post by Logos »

This is very sad indeed. I agree about the comments made that the priesthood has become another profession. The priesthood should never be seen as a another profession or a job that someone does like a garbage man or a secretary. It is much more than that. The Greeks have seem to drop the ball. OOD, can you link where you got this from.

My soul is lonely dark and afraid.

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

logos,

The reason I didn't post the entire article is because I feel it is somewhat misleading. The article basically espouses some theory, like Cyprian, that the church is somehow made up of heretics...

But since you requested it, here it is...

http://www.orthodoxnews.netfirms.com/46 ... ticism.htm

I hope all is well with you.

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Jakub
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Post by Jakub »

OOD,

This is sad news indeed, the battle continues with the evil one.

james

Anastasios
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Post by Anastasios »

Some of that stuff really is questionable but I don't get the bit about Hellenism. I thought Orthodoxy was for all people. I thought Orthodoxy was evangelistic. Promoting Hellenism should NOT be the goal of Orthodox Christians!

anastasios

Disclaimer: Many older posts were made before my baptism and thus may not reflect an Orthodox point of view.
Please do not message me with questions about the forum or moderation requests. Jonathan Gress (jgress) will be able to assist you.
Please note that I do not subscribe to "Old Calendar Ecumenism" and believe that only the Synod of Archbishop Kallinikos is the canonical GOC of Greece. I do believe, however, that we can break down barriers and misunderstandings through prayer and discussion on forums such as this one.

Daniel
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on De-Hellenization

Post by Daniel »

anastasios wrote:

Some of that stuff really is questionable but I don't get the bit about Hellenism. I thought Orthodoxy was for all people. I thought Orthodoxy was evangelistic. Promoting Hellenism should NOT be the goal of Orthodox Christians!

anastasios

Here is a rather long quote from ORTHODOX TRADITION
AND MODERNISM
by Dr. CONSTANTINE CAVARNOS. Maybe this will help understanding whe the above writer might have brought up Hellenism. I think the writer brings it up to illustate the pervasiveness of Modernism with in the GOA. Any way, here's the excerpt.

De-Hellenization
Many of the heterodox in the recent period assert that
Christianity, as we understood it, has no more relation to the man
of today. We need, they say, a Christianity that is to be based on
new concepts and a new terminology. Until now Christianity has
been based, they say, on concepts and terminology of ancient
Greek philosophy; it must now be based on contemporary
concepts and Greek terminology must be replaced by existential and scientific terms. A well-known Greek hierarch in America
adopted this innovationist position and announced it in the
American press [New York Times, September 25, 1967, p. 40:
"Iakovos Urges New Religion Without Greek Ideas;" cf. also
Ethnikos Keryx (New York), September 26, 1967, p. 1], creating
great commotion among the Orthodox, and especially the Greeks.

In relation to this position, I have the following to say. First, it
may pertain to Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, which
have become almost completely secularized with their continual
innovations and discarding what is eternal, revealed, Divine; but
it is foreign to Orthodoxy, which has remained faithful to
Tradition. Orthodox Christianity, with the same dogmas and the
same terminology that she always had, with her fidelity to the
Divine, has as much relevance to contemporary man as she had to
the man of the first centuries and the man of subsequent periods.
Many millions of pious people in the entire world find in
Orthodoxy even today rest, hope, and supramundane joy. And
many select souls from other confessions or from unbelief, lured
by the light of truth, take refuge in Orthodoxy in our days.

Secondly, I note that the assertion that Christianity should be
modernized in accordance with the worldly thought of our era
was heard even in earlier times. As we saw previously, certain
Western theologians set about "renewing" Christian teaching by
harmonizing it with the thought of their time. The movement
failed miserably and caused a great evil—it led many to complete
unbelief.

Thirdly, the assertion that Christianity is founded on the
views of the ancient Greek philosophers constitutes a great error,
unless we mean by "Christianity" a philosophical-theological
system, like that of Thomas Aquinas or some other rationalistic
Western theologian. As I emphasized at the beginning of my
address, true, Orthodox Christianity is not a work of men and is
not based on human conceptions, on human inventions; it is a
work of God, a Divine revelation. It took many terms from the ancient philosophers, but assimilated them completely to the
essence of the Gospel. These terms did not impede in the past,
and do not impede us today, from comprehending this essence—
on the contrary, they aid us. As in the past, so also today, the
concepts and terms of ancient Greek philosophy assist theology,
as well as every science, to express its special content.

Regarding the topic of the relationship between Orthodox
Christianity and ancient Greek philosophy, it is proper and
correct for us to follow, not the view of this or that heretic, but the
view of our Saints. Since we are dealing with "modernism," let us
hear what our greatest Saint of the recent period, Nectarios of
Pentapolis, says: "Greek philosophy. Two words denoting great and lofty
notions. In them is encompassed the totality of scientific
principles.... In them is acknowledged the depth of concepts, the
subtlety of thoughts, their distinctness and clarity, their power
and grace. Greek philosophy is the tutor of mankind, the guide
toward true religion.... She taught the providence of God toward
mankind, and through her sound theories led mankind to
Christ.... Greek philosophy was born according to Divine
providence on behalf of Christianity, so that it might work for the
salvation of mankind.... (Greek) philosophy became a
schoolmaster (paidagogos) leading to Christianity, in which was
found the complete transcendence of the deficiencies of
philosophy and the perfect satisfaction of the yearnings of man's
heart.... Mankind was seeking Divine revelation, in order to learn
the truth and be assured and persuaded; mankind was in need of
a Divine teacher; philosophy lacked these. Mankind found them
in Christianity, toward which Greek philosophy was guiding it" (St.
Nectarios Kephalas, Treasury of Sacred and Philosophical Sayings
[Athens, 1895-1896], vol. 2, pp. vi, xv, xvi).
Consistent with this conviction of his, St. Nectarios often uses
sayings of the ancient Greek philosophers—Socrates, Plato and
Aristotle—, most noticeably in his books Treasury of Sacred and
Philosophical Sayings and Know Thyself, which are works that exhort us to the Christian faith and life.

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