The Sad Reality of Ecumenism "in pictures"

[Seraphim Reeves]

The following was posted as a reply to the user "Jakub" on OC.net. The thread, the last I checked has been locked out, and if I remember correctly, moved from it's original place. Sadly, facts are not well received by some - however I should also say, that I've received private correspondence on this thread which has also shown there are, thank-God, people who do have an interest in the truth. It is a pattern which continuously occurs, whenever I (unworthy as I certainly am) simply repeat the truths which have been taught to me by infinitely better men.

What was so sad (besides the personal nature of the attacks made on the OC.net forum), was the line of argument that pointing out the obvious was an act of "judgement" on my part of "Orthodox heirarchs." Of course, this is absolutely false, on both levels (for there is little in the way of personal interpretation in all of this, and obviously these are not the acts of Orthodox heirarchs.)

Ecumenism in Pictures on OC.net

Jakub,

Canonicity is very important. Why? Because the Holy Canons are the God inspired norms/rules of the Church's governance, giving guidance to those of us who might be otherwise dense to the inspirations of God, and giving clear means to "discern the spirits" of those who implicitly/explicitly make some kind of claim to acting in the grace of Christ.

In this spirit then (not expecting you to be a canonist, obviously but going on what you understand at this time), I pose to you, and to others, whether the following are the acts of "canonical heirarchs"?

MUST Read
Canons Pertaining to Ecumenism

A shared fraternal kiss - brother "bishops".

Here Bart and the Pope "bless" a crowd together - a recognition of the Pope genuinely possessing the priesthood?

Here Bartholamew is venerating an RC altar alongside the Pope.

Here the "Ecumenical Patriarch" Bartholamew presents a Lutheran "archbishop" with a chalice (which was used immediately after it's presentation in a Lutheran "eucharist") - the Lutheran was grateful, saying he too hoped for their soon communion in the “the bread and wine of Jesus Christ”.

EP "bishop" Chrysostom of Austria receiving the "blessing" of Pope Paul VI at St.Peter's (June 29, 1967)

Athens, Feb 1994, "Orthodox" reverencing George Carrey, then "archbishop" of Canterbury

Chrysostom, Metropolitan of Kition (Cyprus) participates in a Jewish festival and lights their Menorah [From "To Periodiko" Teukos 554 Sel. 44].

Apostolic Canon 70: "If any Bishop, or Presbyter, or Deacon, or anyone at all who is on the list of clergymen, fasts together with Jews, or celebrates a holiday together with them, or accepts from them holiday gifts or favors, such as unleavened wafers, or anything of the like, let him be deposed from office. If a layman do likewise, however, let him be excommunicated."

Apostolic Canon 71: "If any Christian conveys oil to a temple of heathen, or to a synagogue of Jews, in their festivals, or lights lamps for them, let him be excommunicated."

The "religion of the future"?

Archb. Iakovos blesses the body and chants the "Trisagion" as he co-presides at the funeral of Roman Catholic Cardinal Spelman at the R.C. St. Patrick's Cathedral, New York [Boston Herald, December 6, 1967]. Wouldn't that be something done by an Orthodox heirarch in regard to another true heirarch?

A logo from a U.N. sponsored ecumenical summit gleefully attended by so called "canonical Orthodox."

MUST Read
Canons Pertaining to Ecumenism

It is also a basic principle of Orthodox ecclessiology, that one cannot remain in communion with heretics - a nod towards the perhaps "theologically" sound, yet who defend and remain in prayerful/obedient communion with/to heretics.

Seraphim

[Joe Zollars]

very interesting.

Even though this is from a Latinist site, about two thirds of the way down the story here: http://novusordowatch.org/aachen2.htm
there are two pictures containing a number of people whom are presumably New Calandrist heirarchs. can anyone identify any of them?

Joe Zollars

[Natasha]

This subject reminded me of a particular incident that happened to me when I was attending a local OCA church. After Divine Liturgy one Sunday, during coffee hour, the Priest brought out some copies he had made. The copies were illustrations of the branches of the Church. The large trunk was labeled Orthodoxy and it split off into Catholic branches, Protestant, and so on and so forth. I am sorry I cannot give a better explaination, but its because I threw the sheet away as soon as I got home. Also, it had on it a story to further simplify the theory, there were three children waiting to meet God. The first child, who represented Orthodoxy, got a special pat on the head from God, who thanked him for staying true to faith and tradition-but God loved all his children the same, & no one was different from the others, so the other two children, Catholic and Protestant, were saved as well.

Ugh...so all I got from the nonsense that it was telling us that we could take the easy road and go become a baptist or something. What trash!!!! :ohvey:
I don't know if anyone else has ever read such a thing, but I don't see how any Orthodox Christian could support such a belief.

[rebecca]

Wouldn't be so bad if the "branches" were dying or breaking off...

P.S. On the above pictures: The cross of Christ as just another logo in a circle of little pictures...sad.

[Seraphim Reeves]

P.S. On the above pictures: The cross of Christ as just another logo in a circle of little pictures...sad.

While I can "understand" this sort of thinking being entertained by the heterodox, it is incomprehensible that such an "image" (and the thought realm behind it) could be acceptable to an Orthodox Christian. The truth is, such a notion is not acceptable in Orthodoxy.

The very fact that such congresses and inter-religious summits hold as a basic assumption such a pantheistic worldview, should be enough in and of itself to preclude any Orthodox involvement. This is besides everything else that may come afterward.

However, what happens when nominally "Orthodox" persons do involve themselves in such things, and worse? Can we really speak of any real "Orthodox" involvement in such a thing? Clearly, such acts occur outside of the Church, for otherwise we'd be saying that these are genuine, ecclessial acts - that said heirarchs and "theologians" are acting in Christ's Name in some genuine fashion. This cannot be - for the Church is indivisable, and does not entertain the possibility of heresy. To assimilate heresy, or to be in communion with it, due to the Church's indivisibility (for She is Christ's Body) is to place one's self outside of the fold - that is not simply a logical deduction, but one mandated by the Holy Canons themselves.

Seraphim

[Gregory2]

[quote="Natasha"]Ugh...so all I got from the nonsense that it was telling us that we could take the easy road and go become a baptist or something. What trash!!!! :ohvey:
I don't know if anyone else has ever read such a thing, but I don't see how any Orthodox Christian could support such a belief.[/quote]

And that's exactly the same message I get too.... why fast, why confess, why worship at liturgies when attending the protestant church down the road is just as good?? Unfortunately, I don't think it's the message the priest intends to convey.... I think he wants his flock to not be "prideful Orthodox." But I'd interpret it just as you did.

No wonder Orthodox parishes in the west are losing people so fast. Very few encourage us to continue to fight the battle against the devil. "Take the easy road" is the mantra of our society, and it creeps into our churches.

Great pictures at the top of this thread, Seraphim. I never understood why the hierarchs want to cuddle favor with catholic & protestant leaders.... clearly it's not to evangelize them, or if it is, they are extremely ineffective at it! It all points to them wanting worldly gains, sadly. Lord Jesus, have mercy on us.

[Anastasios]

Seraphim,

Don't make too much of threads being locked on OCnet. The thread was on the RCC in America and it drifted to a discussion of Ecumenism and Orthodoxy so I closed the thread. You can start as many other threads as you wish.

No one censors your posts on OCnet so don't cry foul. And you are always able to contact us the Admins with questions instead of bringing posts to other forums. I am sure you don't realize how very rude it is to do that, especially when you name the names of those discussing things when they might not have a chance to respond, but hey I won't push you too much.

anastasios