Prayer to the Theotokos in Typika

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Thu 11 August 2005 9:22 am

jimhuffman,

This prayer is very wrong as are many things with the Antiochians. Orthodox Christians venerate Mary and appeal for her powerful intercessions with her Son; if we ask her to find us worthy, it is only to this end. Even in Orthodox prayer books when we say ask the Theotokos to "save us", this is just to mean "pray for us", or "by your prayers we might be saved". This prayer has obvious Roman Catholic overtones. I recommend you find an Orthodox church to go to.

Also, why were you saying "communion prayers" when the priest was not there?

jimhuffman · Post by **jimhuffman** » Thu 11 August 2005 11:04 am

Also, why were you saying "communion prayers" when the priest was not there?

I'm not sure, to be honest. I'm not familiar enough with the Orthodox liturgies to know which ones are communion prayers and which are not. The service was printed out in a special booklet, which was given to me at the beginning.

Jim Huffman

michigan · Post by **michigan** » Thu 11 August 2005 11:29 am

ROCOR uses that prayer, too. It's in the JV prayer book. A few of the prayers I've read in various services seem to exaggerate the role of the Theotokos/saints (eg, calling someone "our only hope of salvation")- can we call that hyperbole or poetic licence? But I can see how people less familiar with the Church might get confused.

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Thu 11 August 2005 6:24 pm

The JV prayer book? I am shocked and dismayed.

I would very much like to know where this prayer came from. Dare I go out on a limb and say it ought to be removed from that book?

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Thu 11 August 2005 9:16 pm

Jim,

The comment wasn't aimed at you as I saw that you are struggling to understand. It was aimed at Tom's constant lack of spiritual understanding and all the protestant mentality that he so dreadfully hangs onto.

Michigan wrote:

ROCOR uses that prayer, too. It's in the JV prayer book.

I have the prayer book too. It's in the Thanksgiving prayers after Holy Communion.

OOD,

What's so wrong with the prayer? It's giving honor to the Mother of God, after giving thanks to Christ for taking Holy Communion. Don't the Greeks have that prayer too?

I find it very disturbing to see that this subject is brought up now, especially when the Feast Day of the Dormition is coming up. And I'm talking about the context of doubt about the honor of the Theotokos. Especially when it gives Tom the audacity to speak against her and anybody else who would say anything negative about the Mother of God.

This is very upsetting to me.

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Thu 11 August 2005 10:08 pm

Joasia,

I don't have time to look at the actual texts and I realize even the Greek prayer books have very similiar texts (which have always caught my eye as well, but I have looked at them closely and they don't cross the line); they don't read that the Mysteries are the Theotokos' like this one. I think people misinterpret the praise we bestow on Panagia and adjust the prayers to their liking.

Maybe I am reading this one wrong, when I get time tomorrow I will re-read it.

jimhuffman · Post by **jimhuffman** » Thu 11 August 2005 10:35 pm

The comment wasn't aimed at you as I saw that you are struggling to understand.

Thank you for your clarification.

in Christ,

Jim