I looked at the link and assume that the statement of his saying his work has no connection with ROCOR [-MP]
is NEW ?
As for the second, I searched but have to be a member. So I looked through the current threads, but couldn't find anything
fitting with this theme.
Where did you see that discussion if you don't mind to give a link or explain ?
My first time there, really. I am confused !
Here is the full version of his statement:
In response to Abp Kyrill's 'Statement' against me, first of all please SEE http://brothernathanaelfoundation.org/about
"Brother Nathanae; is a monastic with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR) where he is blessed by Jerome as a "poslushnik"/"novice" monk and to pursue a public ministry."
Archbishop Kyrill 0f San Francisco did not censure me for any sin or sins on my part but rather f0r exercising my God-given right f freedom of speech. (Please note that I am a regular communicant in good standing at the Synodal Cathedral in Manhattan).
It's one thing for ahierarch to censure a member of the Church for sin but quite another for a hierarch to attempt to muzzle the mouth of one exposing the works of darkness.
Abp Kyrill over-stepped his ecclesial bounds with regard to me and the Brother Nathanael Foundation of which I am responsible to and thus he was out of order.
(I have learned that the majority of the voting bishops knew nothing of the 'statement' until after it ws posted.)
And as Abp Kyrill is not my Spiritual Father is in no position to know the state of my soul, he was out-of-order in that he deplored the state of my soul.
Thus, I continue my public ministry with a clear conscience, with the acknowledgement of such by the chief hierarch of ROCOR, (Metropolitan Hilarion), and most of all, with a strong sense of my calling from Christ, my God and my Defender.
This is a public statement and may be published on all internet venues.
+Brother Nathanael Knaper
'Poslushnik"/"Novice" Monk
Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR)
Taken from OC.net Reply no.432 from jah777
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Quite frankly could not believe my eyes when I first read this and this cannot get my head around a supposed novice writing such a public statement with the content you may all read for yourselves.
Woah !
Guess what I hear in there as the subplot ?
A person who has not only no humility, therefore not deserving the status of even pasluzhnik any longer,
but someone who is not in his soul an Orthodox Christian.
Someone who is a secular person who we assume is devoted to the Savior. But will not take a word of correction from
the hierarchy of his jurisdiction !
Someone who won't follow any rule, out of not just a friendly maverick mentality, which is fine in itself, but
someone who can't OBEY.
That is a cloaked servant of the dark PRETENDING to be one working for God.
Now politically of course many, many sympathize with his ideas and appreciate his boldness in striking out on his own to
tell the world. Nothing wrong with speaking out to expose plots.
But the test comes when reined in by a major hierarch of his jurisdiction. If one looks at the Hierarch List of Rocor MP,
seems to me that Abp Kirill was next after Mark of Berlin. I remember that from before. Of course, Abp Alipy of Chicago
would be highest in seniority after Met Hilarion, but all know that he is incapacitated by that tree accident, sadly for his flock.
So it was not a junior Bishop but a quite senior one who laid down the law to Nathanael, singling him out for
a reprimand.
Nathanael should by conventions of Orthodoxy, accept the rebuke [one of his favorite words, I recall : but only when He
was rebuking somebody ELSE !]. Nathanael could easily tone himself down but instead he barks back defiantly !
OK if he is a layperson but he showcases that he was accepted by former Bp Jerome as a pasluzhnik.
As we all know, that word indicates OBEDIENCE !
So maybe there needs to be a formal ending of his pasluzhnik status with Rocor MP after such a bellowing reply now that
his former sponsor has been sidelined ?
Besides, he CLAIMS to be a regular communicant at the Synodal Church in Manhattan, but that does not ring true at all.
I bet he has once or twice received the Holy Mysteries there. Maybe a few times.
But, Nathanael IS a famous exaggerator.
"In good standing" ? Probably depends on with WHOM.
Seems like Met Hilarion needs to make a statement to counteract Nathanael's defense implying that Met Hilarion is indulgently protecting him.
These are my off the cuff reactions. I might reread the statement and have a few more things too.
Anyone else have a similar reaction ? Or am I off base ?
One of the contradictions that stands out for me is his reference to his God given right of freedom of speech. This appears to confuse his civil rights as an American and something God given. Then there is his apparent disdain for someone much higher up the 'Church' food chain. This but two observations on a public statement that appears totally inappropriate for a supposed 'novice'.
I had written a reply to Stephen, agreeing, a few days ago but it got ERASED !
Sometimes that happens. But meanwhile I searched a minute or two and found this comment about Nathanael which resonated
to some degree.
It was written by someone in the general public which I think bears a relation to why Rocor-MP SHOULD rein in Bro Nathanael :
"Unless he is an actual official Orthodox priest, why is he wearing that outfit? When people see him, what do they think? He is either insane or is mocking the Christian religion. The fact he verbally supports Christianity in spite of the obvious mockery should also be suspicious. "
To me, that cut through all the layers right down to the bare truth.
What if Nathanael could be given an ultimatum : either go through the process of becoming ordained as a hieromonk [not a monk because there
is too much room for his antics the way it is now where he is not even a clear pasluzhnik, but in ecclesiastical limbo]
OR dissociate himself with Rocor-MP.
After all, if one looks at it from their point of view, he spent a good nine months enthusiastically working to inform people against the
union with Moscow. Now he is proudly proclaiming to be almost a spiritual son of Met Hilarion [Kapral].
[I wonder what Met Hilarion[Alfeyev] would say about Nathanel - the thought just occurred to me ! He is after all in charge of DECR,
External Relations for the Moscow Patriarchate, so this would theoretically fall into his province of work.]
So, as seems to be the point of the missive of Abp Kyrill, Nathanael needs to either regularize his status. OR stop leaning on Rocor-MP
as a prop for his drama !
What if he were to be assigned a spiritual father - notice he does not say WHO his spiritual father IS when he retorts that Abp Kyrill i not his -
so he may not have one, probably doesn't.
Maybe that Fr Aidan might be congenial for him. He sounds rather sensible from the few posts I read on Orthodox Christianity. net
and could maybe succeed with rebel Brother Nathanael where no one else COULD.
For whatever value it is worth to analyze, here is another quotation which appears to be someone from a TOC originally who
went over to World Orthodoxy. It is a case of a rare commentator who knows well about Orthodoxy.
His point about Nathanael seeing himself as a Fool for Christ is a legitimate one.
But even Fools for Christ would have spiritual direction from their Elder or spiritual father, right ?!
For example, St Theophil of the Kiev Caves had a spiritual father, I believe.
This in a nutshell may be why he is an embarrassment to his current jurisdiction. He has to regularize himself right away
given the unclear history of his behavior. The newspaper article about his Boston experience is still out there, I think,
which does not reflect well on him.
Only if Nathanael issues a statement of repentance and agrees to submit to a spiritual father AND follow through with
the latter's directives could that bad impression be reduced.
He's got to get rid of that white glove / black glove costume, too. Some people are associating that with the Kabala or
Aleister Crowley EVIL "magick".
[ If necessary, maybe this post needs to go to Controversial Social Topics for it is very direct about some angles]:
"... Kapner started out as a guy I knew about and a lot of people involved in Old Calendarist/Traditionalist Orthodox Christianity knew about. He really was a clown to us, a very gossipy, rude, and libelous clown who had a website/blog always full with gossip about this weird Old Calendarist breakaway cult/sect or that or some odd ball in Russia who decided he was a monk and started a cultic monastic sect totally outside and condemned by everyone even us... and we always wondered “Why is he doing this? WHO CARES?” Really this is how we saw him and when I looked more into his background, this is back in 2005 mind you, he is not even a real monk! He was accepted into a very small group of vagante Russian Orthodox in what we would call an uncanonical, indefensible, situation of being split, excommunicated, illegitimate. This is the group he belonged to as a NOVICE. That is not a true monk that is a novice. And then he went off on his own for years. No one guiding him, no submitting to an elder monk which is how it is supposed to work. No one wanting to be a monk, I at one time wanted this until I met my wife, of course that is a common story, no one wanting a celibate life of devotion to Christ and His Mother, poverty, and the “desert” away from the world would do what Kapner did. This man, I truly feel sorry a bit for him, I now and have always regarded as a typical Jew: seriously mentally ill. I think he imagines he is following an old Orthodox tradition of being a Fool-for-Christ but his behavior and attention seeking, constant attention seeking, and gossip betray the personality disorder/s so common to Jews that I simply think his strange behavior is him trying to convince himself that in a convoluted way he is doing good.
... I am willing to guess his old stuff that will offer a really good window into his prelest, state of mental and spiritual, demonic, deception, are probably gone and erased from the internet..."
That last sentence is quite correct : Nathanael erased his "Church News" Live Journal in September 2007, with no explanation. Some figured it was
pressure from the MP, as the gist had been anti-union.
Maybe it was due to his impatience to be more in the limelight !
No matter what comments are made about Nathaniel, the thing that stands out the most, to me, which proves his lie of faith, is the picture in the link that Stephen posted. Nathaniel has a Cross tucked under his belt, on his hip. What a disgraceful act!! How can anyone call himself an Orthodox Christian and treat the Holy Cross like that?? This picture says it all!
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
