Appropriate Modest Clothing in Church

[Kollyvas]

Actualy, I tend to confuse moslem women with Orthodox nuns when I see them, due to their dress. I think that the Theotokos depicted with uncovered head would be so irreverent as to spark protest. She being the greatest creation, greatest woman, I would think REAL Orthodox women would want to emulate her...
R

[Tessa]

Well I think everyone here knows my scarf position-I for them. I started wearing one more and more. To all those people who say scarves bother them, or strangle them, etc. I question without trying to be scandalous, do you wear undergarments? Elastic, underwire, and the like are surely uncomfortable, but we get used to them and wearing them is the socially accepted thing to do. Maybe if we were in a country were headcoverings were the norm we would have less debate. To all of those who still complain about a duty that Scripture commands us to fulfill, if albeit ONLY when we're praying, I suggest ordering the basic cotton scarf from here http://www.modestclothing.com/. Not only do they have great, high quality, stylish products, but they offer a variety of tips on tying headcoverings in different ways that are more comfortable for people who feel weighed down from such a big heavy piece of cloth, http://www.modestclothing.com/cgi-bin/tying.pl.

The other thing I would like to add that I think would be beneficial for you all is a lecture that can be listened to or downloaded in mp3 about marriage. It goes over in brief how, unfortunately, many Christian men AND women have completely lost all concept of modesty. Even though the Muslims don't have the truth they have conservative values on these issues which has in turn kept other things from contributing to the moral decay of their society. I think both men and women who through immodesty (in dress, speech, dance, etc.) lure others to fornication will be judged accordingly.

Just my two cents.

In Christ,
Tessa
http://www.pigizois.gr/arxodariki/In_English.htm

[jechenaudrey]

Islamic veils are taken from barkas worn by Orthodox nuns and layomwn from centuries past. The muslim have an effort in codifying their practices as detailed regulations(fiqh/jurisprudence) as the Jews do. It is time that we should also. put together a complete compendium of traditional orthodox practices and traditions.

[Jean-Serge]

Ortodox laywomen have never worn burqa style clothes... Entirely black hiding the face etc etc... Greeks, Romans, and the other people of the Empire never wore such clothes!!! I have seen traditionnal ladies' clothes in Orthodox countries like Georgia and Serbia and they are not like islamic or monacal clothes... at all...These are normal dress or normal skirts that's all... I think some people confound Orthodox traditionalism with talibanism.

Including in muslim countries like Algeria whre I lived, the traditionnal ladies' clothe was not a burka but a "haik" white and not black. In teh same times the Tuarag ladies (that are muslim) are not veiled at all... Tha same in traditionnal muslim African countries that were islamized long ago...

http://www.kunstkamera.ru/exhibition/ka ... g/xixc.htm

Please visit this link : traditional arrire from Caucasia (Georgian, Armenian, Jews, Christian and Msulims). You will see no taliban attire including among the muslim girls but only the traditionnal attire with scarves since it was the custom in these lands...

[Jean-Serge]

It clearly appears that there had never been an imposed Orthodox attire : Byzanrines kept their Roman clothes, Armenians did the same and so on... But in no case, women wore burqa style things...

These are some illustration from www.costumes.org

First Byzantine clothes

the Empress Theodora

It appears that costumes in Orthodox countries were bright and colourful and not like you want to impose us... i.e women wearing black long clothes... and reduced to this... I think some people should cope against their sinful thoughts (and look at how they adorn themselves) instead of blaming women...

For me, in church, the dress (skirt) should cover entirely the knees, the arms should not be entirely naked and the scarf is because of the angels and not because of men. By the way, since men are on the rigjt and women on the left, how can men realize what is wearing the lady? For men I advocate for pants (no short or short pants, no naked arms, no tight clothes) and I can assure you that in some parishes man really dress like gays... Modesty is for both genders...

[Ebor]

http://www.stjohndc.org/russian/english.htm

The second paragraph:

"There is another very ancient Icon, known as the “Icon of the Most-holy Theotokos, helper to women giving birth to children.” On that Icon, the Mother of God is depicted with head uncovered, her hair flowing down her shoulders, and her arms folded upon her breast. "

The website is that of the ROCOR cathedral in Washington DC. I have seen copies of this icon. I bought copies of it from an seller who was a member of ROCOR, to give to a couple of ladies who were having difficulty in this area. It shows St. Mary the Virgin as a maiden with uncovered hair.

I found some on Ebay to show what it looks like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VIRGIN-HELPER-IN-BI ... dZViewItem

Ebor

[Kollyvas]

Yes. As is easily visible...a later icon. If it's necessay to pull up Patristic commentary on the Pauline "women should cover their heads," then the misunderstandings elsewhere are pretty dire. Suffice it to say that it has to do with modesty and virtue...but if you don't believe in Ever-Virginity, does it matter...
R