Moderator: Mark Templet
Ecumenism is a heresy if it implies that there is not a True Church but many legitimate church... The anathema against ecumenism is very clear : it condemns the Branch theory... And not ecumenism as a generality...
However, praying with heretics is uncanonical and not heretical... Talking about one thing with catholics is not heretical per se. It depends on the result of the talks...
Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.
If ecumenism means that you accept a teaching that was condemned in the general or lokal synods, then it is a heresy. If it just means speaking with heretics about christianity and nothing more, then, of course it is not. Even you OOD do so when you speak with TomS. Therefore, participation in WCC is uncanonical if it means praying with heretics, but only heresy if they defend or are indifferent to heresy.
I would, for example, never take communion in an antiochean "orthodox" church because they are in open heresy. It would be the same as going to a protestant or roman-catholic church. They are under anathema.
This is a strong argument, and a valid conclusion from this would be to brake communion with all those churches who are in communion with the antiochean patriarchate.
But here comes a point of uncertanity for my part. I know that SP or MP or ROCOR under Laurus dont accept monophysitism. Why dont wait some time for this question to be solved?
Just because Antiochean patriarchate is en open heresy, it does not immidiatly follow that you have to break communion with another jurisdiction. Perhaps we must await a synodal condemnation. In the mean time, the best we could do, so I think, is to focus on our inner struggle for the aquisition of the Holy Spirit.
Kyrie Iesou Christe, eleison me
Exact science must presently fall upon its own keen sword...from Skepsis there is a path to "second religiousness," which is the sequel and not the preface of the Culture.
Oswald Spengler
If ecumenism means that you accept a teaching that was condemned in the general or lokal synods, then it is a heresy.
We do not ascribe any infallibility to a general or local council. If a general or local council is true, it is because it has been accepted by the Church. Only the Church is infallible. There are many examples of local and general councils being condemned by the Church.
And it is not just what was "officially" condemned that makes it a heresy.
But I don't need anything I have just written to say that the statements in Balamand do in fact confess heresy. There is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and not the two which is claimed by Balamand.
Just because Antiochean patriarchate is en open heresy, it does not immidiatly follow that you have to break communion with another jurisdiction. Perhaps we must await a synodal condemnation. In the mean time, the best we could do, so I think, is to focus on our inner struggle for the aquisition of the Holy Spirit.
All of the Holy Fathers of the Church implore us to NOT have communion with heresy. They don't say if its just your bishop, or your synod, and they don't say wait a few weeks or months - Orthodoxy demands through Holy tradition as found in the canons and fathers, that we should hold no communion with heresy.
It is cut and dry really.
OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:All of the Holy Fathers of the Church implore us to NOT have communion with heresy. They don't say if its just your bishop, or your synod, and they don't say wait a few weeks or months - Orthodoxy demands through Holy tradition as found in the canons and fathers, that we should hold no communion with heresy.
Exact, the Holy Canons punishes the heretic in the same way than who is in communion with him.
Even if one should give away all his possessions in the world, and yet be in communion with heresy, he cannot be a friend of God, but rather is an enemy. St. Theodore the Studite
We forbid all the clergy who adhere to the Orthodox and Ecumenical Council in any way to submit to the bishops who have already apostatized or shall hereafter apostatize. Third Canon, Third Ecumenical Council
Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deed.
II John 9-11
It is possible to find a middle word that between two views will signify both. But a middle view between two opposite views concerning the same thing is impossible…There is no room for compromise in matters of the Orthodox Faith. St. Mark of Ephesus
I adjure all the people in Cyprus who are true children of the Catholic Church to flee as fast as their feet can carry them from those priests who have fallen and submitted to the Latins [Roman Catholics]; neither assemble in church with them, nor receive any blessing from their hands. For it is better for you to pray to God in your homes alone than to gather together in churches with the Latin-minded. – Germanos II, Patriarch of Constantinople (620 A.D)
I am convinced that the further I depart from him [the Patriarch] and from those like him [the Latin-minded], the closer do I draw near to God and to all the faithful and the holy Fathers; and the more I am separated from them, by so much more am I united to the truth and the holy Fathers. St. Mark of Ephesus (1440 A.D.)
OOD
It is the church, through a synod, general or local, who gives authority to the decisions of that council. And I meant that such an approved synods decisions is to be followed. But the view you expressed is a little too black and white. Many times in church history there were periods with uncertainty how to deal with difficult questions. Of course it is true, and so I said, that the canons order you to break communion with heretics, or those who are in communion with them. I dont want to sound like a protestant, but dont we forget Gods infinite grace and love here, if we just read the canons and what we ought to do according to them. Things in the Church are so difficult right now, that I dont think breaking communion here or there solves any problem. I dont believe that SP, for example, loose all graces in their mysteries just because they are in communion officially with AP. There exists a fight within the so called "world orthodox" churches that are legitimate.
Exact science must presently fall upon its own keen sword...from Skepsis there is a path to "second religiousness," which is the sequel and not the preface of the Culture.
Oswald Spengler
