Is Moscow Displeased with ROCOR - How MP REALLY thinks

[jgress]

The current reigning ideology in Russia, which the MP supports, is basically that Communism was an aberration, but that Stalin somehow "purified it", by purging the Party of "bad elements" (read: Jews) and restoring the Patriarchate. So Orthodox Christians can legitimately support Stalin, the Soviet Union, the "Great Patriotic War" and all that. The fact that the State continued to persecute believers, even in the MP, for decades afterwards is just a minor detail.

[jgress]

On a related topic, I read a review of a new book showing that Stalin was an "orthodox" Communist through his whole career. It's popular not only among contemporary "National Bolsheviks", but also many ideological Communists, e.g. Trotskyists, that Stalin was not a real Communist. The National Bolsheviks say he only really believed in Russia, the Trotskyists say he only believed in power. But that doesn't explain the extent to which he made his country suffer for political ideals, e.g. collectivization. He genuinely believed in what he was doing, terrible though that was.

http://www.economist.com/news/books-and ... rsed-cause

[Barbara]

Commentary and original article in a comprehensible English translation posted by anti-MP Reader from Met Agafangel jurisdiction
This is a great opportunity to get a glimpse into the MINDSET of MP and ruling circles of Russian government.
This is exactly what we all have IMAGINED all this time, but there has not so far any obviousl direct evidence of how MP REALLY views
their newly-acquired subsidiary, Rocor-MP [at least, that is clearly the mechanical way in which the higher echelons of power over there
have ALWAYS viewed their purchase, so to speak :

"If...Putin and his fellow KGB agent pal, MP Kyrill-Gundaev had their way, they would clearly wish to eject ALL non-Russian-blooded converts from their captive, 'Russian Church' (both in the OCA and also in their ROCOR/MP), here in their number one 'enemy country', America, in their power hungry twisted neo-communist minds (still bent on world domination). They feel that they cannot trust, 'Americans', we are all too slippery, too independent."

Rd. Daniel

http://readerdanielsharing.blogspot.com ... g-its.html

[Lydia]

As someone who was born and raised in ROCOR, I can attest that the preservation of "Russian-ness" was always very important. There was an attitude that ROCOR was an island that had become detached from Mother Russia and would be re-attached one day.
Sadly, this was a difficult situation for converts or even for other cradle Orthodox who were not ethnic Russians.
My grandparents lived three-quarters of their lives in Canada, but firmly intended to return to Russia once the Godless communists had been overthrown. They fully expected that their children and grand-children would "return" as well.

[Barbara]

That attitude is 1,000 % understandable, Lydia. Thanks for explaining further. I am still working my way through the
article and had some questions. Maybe you or another could lend your views about what the author is getting at ?

Sometimes the Reader helps out by guessing what the author meant - such as the last sentence about America CORRUPTING
everything it touches, including the Russian Church Abroad. Those translations are tough to comprehend the DEEPER or the true
meaning of without a little extra help where possible.

We need to know whether the author is being sarcastic, or what is her attitude actually ? That obviously influences all that
she will convey.

I am glad, though, that only 3 priests she polled at the Flushing Annunciation Church had even HEARD of Pat Kirill's apparent
landmark speech about The Russian World. [I hadn't either.]
That reveals possibly that 5 years after the dreadful union with the MP, Rocor Mp priests are not that interested in or attuned with their overseers in the MP.

Now she writes this :
" A large group of English-speaking priests and monks, not so long ago turned to Metropolitan Hilarion with a request to leave that diocese. Metropolitan granted them the status of 'stavropegical', [free from the control/obedience to, any local diocesan bishop], and they are now directly subject to the Primate of the Church itself."

Isn't the word stavropegial? Maybe a typo there.
Does anyone have a clue or heard a rumor of WHICH group this was ? My guess, due to the stavropegial status, would be the Wayne West Virigina
Holy Cross Monastery ?
But I wonder WHY they asked ? Were they seeking a True Orthodox jurisdiction ??!!
I can't imagine they were petitioning to transfer to a New Calendar one ? They couldn't have wanted to join the Greek Archdiocese for example.
This intrigued me.
It means, too, that they didn't care for Bishop George [Schaefer] ?
How could that be when he resides right there with them, at their presumed request ?
If they were content to be placed under Met Hilarion [Kapral], then the request to change jurisdiction makes no sense really...

P.S. - There is a recentlt done film on this monastery. Bp George does not speak much.
I was thinking earlier today for our new member JamesR to take a look at this but this is exactly the type of monastery
he probably would NOT want, even if he were considering a jurisdiction under the MP. We hope he will not anyway.

[Lydia]

Well, my take is this:
The MP doesn't like anyone who isn't ethnically Russian and doesn't want them soiling the Holy Russian Church. Notice she makes a point of saying that Metropolitan Laurus is Carpatho-Russian and Metropollitan Hilarion is Ukranian, but they can be considered Russian so they are tolerable.

As for Americans, they believe in such un-Russian ideals like individual liberty, self-determination, equality before the law, freedom of conscience, etc.
And...they want to worship in a language (English) that they can understand! Those corrupting so-and so's.
I find the tone of the article quite offensive. The MP( which is simply a department of the Soviet State) considers Russian Churches in other countries to be, in fact, part of Russia. It sounds as though the American prelates find this idea unacceptable. But, when you lie down with dogs...

[Barbara]

Lydia, thanks, that is really useful.
Did you happen to read the original Russian, if you know the language well ?
Now i hope you are NOT one of the children of emigres to which the author refers as "speaking with an accent" - !!
Just kidding.
Is that where you picked up her condescending tone ? Or did you get it from the English ? I found it hard to pick up exactly
from the translation, which makes the words sound more objective, less emotive perhaps.

That is so funny what you wrote, about non Russians 'soiling' the Holy Church - ! None of us quite understood that part, either.
We understood there was a huge factor of Russian nationalism contributing to the campaign to appeal to ROCOR's sentimentality for Old Russia.

But we didn't know that the MP reps were that picky as to complain about Ukrainian or Carpatho-Rusyn recent Rocor metropolitans !
For I read it that she thinks that it's laughable that the hicks in Rocor didn't even make the crucial distinction that their 2 Met's were not even actually even Russian by ethnic background.

Author made a mistake, too.
I will post that in the next comment.