Incognito1583 wrote:Father Seraphim was of course with ROCA an old calendar church, but he believed the MP had grace.
Sorry, if anyone covered this already, I only skimmed through the posts; I am a slothful creature....
Nevertheless, because of my great love for Father Seraphim, which I have only come to know through his writings, I am a bit perplexed, as I have come to another understanding which you have pointed out.
You see, having come from the Church Abroad and having been baptized into her loving arms, I hold her former position (i.e. Met. Philaret, Sorrowful Epistle) very dear to my heart...
Not to reveal my actual age, but I was still around during the days which the one "jurisdiction" was referred to as "red" and the other "white".
I recall being in Jerusalem in the early 90's and the protest we had to face against the various groups. From the Palestinian Society at Alexander Nevsky to the MP trying acting all snobbishly as if they had "rights" to pounce on the Holyland properties due to the "ok" of a certain "Mark" (in charge).
I commend Mat. Juliana (who also understood the white and the red) and even up to this day, there is a clear distinction of the Ukaz set in place for "Mother Russia".
Which perhaps, may have made all of the difference in the world for a few.
Maybe, being a "Gen. X-er" may count for something after all in retrospect...
Excerpt from The Royal Path in an Age of Apostasy:
Large movements of protest opposed the reformers in both the Russian and Greek Churches, producing the deep divisions which exist until now in the Orthodox world. In the Russian Church, Sergianism was decisively rejected by very many of the bishops and faithful, led by Metropolitan Joseph of Petrograd; this "Josephite" movement later became organized to some extent and became known as the "True Orthodox Church." The history of this illegal "Catacomb" Church of Russia is, to this day, veiled in secrecy, but in the past few years a number of startling evidences of its present-day activities have come to light, leading to stern repressive measures on the part of the Soviet government. The name of its present chief hierarch (Metropolitan Theodosius) has become known, as has that of one of its ten or more bishops (Bishop Seraphim). In the Diaspora, the Russian Church Outside of Russia committed itself from the very beginning of Sergianism in 1927 to a firm anti-Sergianist position, and on numerous occasions it has expressed its solidarity with the True Orthodox Church in Russia, while refusing all communion with the Moscow Patriarchate. Its uncompromisingness and staunch traditionalism in this and other matters were not to the taste of several of the Russian hierarchs of Western Europe and America, who were more receptive to the "reform" currents in 20th-century Orthodoxy, and they separated themselves at various times from the Russian Church Outside of Russia, thus creating the present "jurisdictional" differences of the Russian Diaspora.
Not for nothing', but I really STRONGLY dislike when people just make statements without actual quotes. It makes an argument and/or debate sound exceedingly self-opinionated. Pointing out to the Fathers should not be based on "what the individual posting and/or writing feels/interprets or thinks. It should be based solely on actual the texts of the Father(s) involved. What one believes as an individual is worth very little. When we (common lay people) say this or that, without document it is worth very little, I am sure that you understand that.
If you will please, just copy + paste Father Seraphim's actual words, because that would make everything so much simpler to understand. I for one do not care if you add on a personal commentary, but I (like the rest) I am curious to see actual texts.
When a person states what a "third-party", “believes or thinks”, without an actual reference and/or link (i.e., actual text), it makes the actual argument kind of doubtful. People need reference; it is just easier to understand, it's just that simple...
Christ, in speaking to the multitudes was also "simple", He made things so very clear that even children (babes) were able to discern the Truth. Do you understand?
Do not be vague when you speak, speak the truth and speak it plainly, so that even my 9 year old may understand and come to Christ because of it.
NOW, if you would be so kind to quote the Blessed Father without alteration and or third party "opinion", I am certain that it would be most appreciated.
Remember, a nine year old might read this someday and gather "understanding"....
Now, speak/write.
In Christ,
Xenia
