Schism

[Joseph]

1998 The Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew addresses a Roman Catholic gathering with these words: "Those of our forefathers from whom we inherited this separation were the unfortunate victims of the serpent who is the chief of all evils; they are already in the hands of God, the righteous judge."

With this statement the Ecumenical Patriarch teaches heresy publicly and betrays those who died to preserve the purity of the faith. He clearly disassociated himself from the Orthodox forefathers who were “victims of the serpent” and clearly confesses that his “Orthodoxy” is not the same as that of the fathers.

2001 The Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew in a statement given at the Phanar for a forthcoming United Durban World Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobis and Related Intolerance states:

The Orthodox Church does not seek to convince others of any one particular understanding of truth or revelation, nor does it seek to convert others to a particular mode of thinking...
This statement is a clear denial of Christ Who is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

[TomS]

I gotta agree with OOD on this.

If the Orthodox Church teaches and believes that it is the True Church and it alone has maintained the Faith, then that is what it IS.

It can't at the same time agree that other churches have attained the same Grace by doing things different from what the Orthodox Church teaches.

That is just basic inconsistency.

[Joseph]

2004 The Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Evangelical Protestant/Lutheran Church in Germany sign an agreement to recognize each other’s baptisms. Under the agreement, Christians who convert from one denomination to another will not be baptized again.
This is a clear and blatant denial of the “one Baptism” confessed in the Creed. The Canons of the Church teach that any Orthodox bishop who recognizes the baptisms of heretical groups is to be deposed.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

I was away this afternoon and I thought I felt the earth shake - me and TomS actually are agreeing. Something must be wrong.

[Nikodemus]

OOD

I did not say that it is not heretical...I just said that it is not clear heresy. They dont say that the purgatory, or the Immaculate Conception or Filioque or any other heresy of the roman church is on a par with orthodoxy. They just said that there are mysteries in the catholic church.

Then comes the judas-statemnet: That you should not convert heretics to orthodoxy

I reject this from my whole heart of course

But Moscow Patriarchate have rejected Balamand

Bartholomews statements that Nathanael quoted are of the worst kind.

I have, of course, no sympathy form them.

But are they enough ground to break communion?

I am not sure

I just say this...I am not sure.

But I will read more...

[Joseph]

He that saith not “Anathema” to those in heresy let him be anathema. Seventh Ecumenical Council

Even if one should give away all his possessions in the world, and yet be in communion with heresy, he cannot be a friend of God, but rather is an enemy. St. Theodore the Studite

Is the shepherd a heretic? Then he is a wolf! You must flee from him; do not be deceived to approach him even if he appears gentle and tame. Flee from communion and conversation with him even as you would flee from a poisonous snake. - St. Photius the Great

Another thing that St. John Chrysostom taught and insisted upon with all was never on any occasion whatsoever to associate with heretics and, above all, never to take the Holy Communion with them, ‘even if,’ the blessed man said, ‘you remain without communicating all your life, if through stress of circumstances you cannot find a community of the catholic Church. …How shall we escape from sharing in that punishment which in the world to come awaits heretics, if we defile the Orthodox and holy faith by adulterous communion with heretics?

[Nikodemus]

Nathanael

You presuppose what is to be proved...that they preach open heresy

If you can prove this

Then I join ROCOR-V

If not

I stay in SP