Revnitel wrote:Truthfully, I think it is about two different visions of Russian politics obscuring the vision of the Orthodox of the various parties and causing unnecessary hatred. Ecclesiologies, etc. I leave to the Bishops, but Orthodoxy first. Then people can vote (or not) at the ballot box.
Or vote with their feet if their bishops prove to be heretics or heterodox.
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.
If that is what conviction leads them to do. Truth before falsehood always.
"The spouse of Christ cannot be adulterous, she is uncorrupted and pure, She knows one home; she guards with chaste modesty the sanctity of one couch. She keeps us for God. She appoints the sons whom she has born for the Kingdom. Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined to an adulteress is separated from the promises of the Church; nor can he who forsakes the Church of Christ attain to the rewards of Christ."
--St. Cyprian of Carthage, On The Unity of the Church (Chapter 6, ANF,V:423),
Revnitel wrote:Truthfully, I think it is about two different visions of Russian politics obscuring the vision of the Orthodox of the various parties and causing unnecessary hatred. Ecclesiologies, etc. I leave to the Bishops, but Orthodoxy first. Then people can vote (or not) at the ballot box.
Please clarify what you mean by "vision of the Orthodox" and "Various Parties" and how do "ecclesiologies" that are entirely different not pose anthing more than a political issue that does not require our involvement. Anything that touches on the heart of the Church's True Identity and, hence, our soul's salvation absolutely deserves and demands our involvement and attention.
Ecclesiologies have nothing do with Red vs. White politics, which motivate and polarize people into camps. People are entitled to their own politics but not to their own truth. So in things which have to do with political disputes, which don't include ecclesiology and whatever else, that is ones personal business. God really doesn't care about your party affiliation. His interest is in your salvation and in exercising your fidelity to Holy Church.
"The spouse of Christ cannot be adulterous, she is uncorrupted and pure, She knows one home; she guards with chaste modesty the sanctity of one couch. She keeps us for God. She appoints the sons whom she has born for the Kingdom. Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined to an adulteress is separated from the promises of the Church; nor can he who forsakes the Church of Christ attain to the rewards of Christ."
--St. Cyprian of Carthage, On The Unity of the Church (Chapter 6, ANF,V:423),
I agree, Rev., with what you have just posted (except for the first clause of your post) but I still think that the "Red vs. White" -- or more properly, the True Orthodox Jurisdiction Churches vs. the MP/Sergianist/World Orthodox Communion -- is precisely divided on the key point of the Dogma of the Church, or ecclesiology. All the other derivative differences are outgrowths of this root question being answered differently by the two oppositional Church bodies.
I have split this thread. The discussion about ROCOR's status as a True Orthodox Church has been moved to the private forum. Please PM me for access.
I never saw all this subsequent discussion. Good for Icxypion to gently give a better explanation to the new convert, Revnitel, who was coming
from more of a modern American standpoint [understandably, but needs REVision...!]
I am coming back to this thread, for I was reading another interview last night from 2009 with archimandrite tikhon [shevkunov] concerning
Vlasov and Rocor's general support for the General.
I have some ideas in reply to it, but maybe "veterans" of Rocor in pre-MP days might have a fuller understanding of where the MP character was
coming from.
It was VERY disturbing to me to read.
