Address to ROCA, by Bishop Gregory

[Joe Zollars]

for your information CGW:

Dormition Skete
719-395-6395
DormitionSkete@Starband.net

[Monk George]

Vladyka is not saying never forgive.

To believe this, I'll have to hear it from his mouth, and not from yours.

I'm not Bishop Gregory, but after living at the Skete for close to twelve years, I can tell you without doubt that Bishop Gregory is a very forgiving person. In fact, our whole Synod is very merciful and forgiving.

In the Orthodox Church, we follow the teaching of the Apostolic Constitutions. I don't know if you would accept this patristic document as authoritative, but certainly the truth it proclaims, regardless of the authorship, is indisputable:

From the Apostolic Constitutions, ANF Volume VII: That It is a Dangerous Thing to Judge Without Hearing Both Sides, or to Determine of Punishment Against a Person Before He is Convicted.
XXI. Be gentle, gracious, mild, without guile, without falsehood; not rigid, not insolent, not severe, not arrogant, not unmerciful, not puffed up, not a man-pleaser, not timorous, not double-minded, not one that insults over the people that are under thee, not one that conceals the divine laws and the promises to repentance, not hasty in thrusting out and expelling, but steady, not one that delights in severity, not heady. Do not admit less evidence to convict any one than that of three witnesses, and those of known and established reputation; inquire whether they do not accuse out of ill-will or envy: for there are many that delight in mischief, forward in discourse, slanderous, haters of the brethren, making it their business to scatter the sheep of Christ; whose affirmation if thou admittest without nice scanning the same, thou wilt disperse thy flock, and betray it to be devoured by wolves, that is, by demons and wicked men, or rather not men, but wild beasts in the shape of men—by the heathen, by the Jews, and by the atheistic heretics. For those destroying wolves soon address themselves to any one that is cast out of the Church, and esteem him as a lamb delivered for them to devour, reckoning his destruction their own gain. For he that is “their father, the devil, is a murderer.” He also who is separated unjustly by thy want of care in judging will be overwhelmed with sorrow, and be disconsolate, and so will either wander over to the heathen, or be entangled in heresies, and so will be altogether estranged from the Church and from hope in God, and will be entangled in impiety, whereby thou wilt be guilty of his perdition: for it is not fair to be too hasty in casting out an offender, but slow in receiving him when he returns; to be forward in cutting off, but unmerciful when he is sorrowful, and ought to be healed. For of such as these speaks the divine Scripture: “Their feet run to mischief; they are hasty to shed blood. Destruction and misery are in their ways, and the way of peace have they not known. The fear of God is not before their eyes.” Now the way of peace is our Saviour Jesus Christ, who has taught us, saying: “Forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. Give, and it shall be given to you; ” that is, give remission of sins, and your offences shall be forgiven you. As also He instructed us by His prayer to say unto God: “Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.” If, therefore, you do not forgive offenders, how can you expect the remission of your own sins? Do not you rather bind yourselves faster, by pretending in your prayers to forgive, when you really do not forgive? Will you not be confronted with your own words, when you say you forgive and do not forgive? For know ye, that he who casts out one who has not behaved himself wickedly, or who will not receive him that returns, is a murderer of his brother, and sheds his blood, as Cain did that of his brother Abel, and his “blood cries to God,” and will be required. For a righteous man unjustly slain by any one will be in rest with God for ever. The same is the case of him who without cause is separated by his bishop. He who has cast him out as a pestilent fellow when he was innocent, is more furious than a murderer. Such a one has no regard to the mercy of God, nor is mindful of His goodness to those that are penitent, nor keeping in his eye the examples of those who, having been once great offenders, received forgiveness upon their repentance. Upon which account, he who casts off an innocent person is more cruel than he that murders the body. In like manner, he who does not receive the penitent, scatters the flock of Christ, being really against Him. For as God is just in judging of sinners, so is He merciful in receiving them when they return. For David, the man after God’s own heart, in his hymns ascribes both mercy and judgment to Him.

There is no doubt that our Synod as a whole, and Bishop Gregory in particular, would extend the forgiveness that Christ commands of us to any who come in repentance. This love is what distinguishes the Orthodox Church from everything outside her: we do not cover heresies or sins with the ecumenical stamp of approval on the one hand, which is hatred, nor on the other do we cast off those who desire to be saved. Truth is a precious treasure that can be destroyed by going too far to the left, or too far to the right: one must remain in the center, following the example of the Holy Fathers.

Fr. George

[Nevski]

or too far to the right. . .

Too late.

[Bogatyr]

:ohvey: By simply READING forward, I clarify:

his indictment is of the lawlessness and the structure it has created and not of sinners. It is correct and quite Christian, except to the pc and heterodox, to correct the sinner whilst utterly denying legitimacy to the sin. That is the point +Bishop Gregory is making.

Moreover, your attack of +Bishop Gregory is that he is espousing ultramontane views. Do a search engine search and define that for yourself. Moreover, your overall DISCOUNTING of his views is DONATIST in its formulation. Examine that as well.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
R M Malleev-Pokrovsky
PS Why are antiochians and "others" so concerned about the affairs of ROCOR? Can they see opportunity for their errors in the compromise ROCOR is undertaking?!

[Bogatyr]

:ohvey: I see the OCA "not ready for ROCOR" toadies have also intruded. The point is that +Bishop Gregory is not condemning anyone or sitting in judgement as a one-man council, he is expressing his opposition to error and affirming his resistance and trying to make his position cleat to others that A COUNCIL may indeed condemn the error. That is how it is done in the ORTHODOX CHURCH. No amount of sophistries and quotes taken out of context can obfuscate that. You are simply engaging in open deception.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
R M Malleev-Pokrovsky

[CGW]

In the Orthodox Church, we follow the teaching of the Apostolic Constitutions. I don't know if you would accept this patristic document as authoritative, but certainly the truth it proclaims, regardless of the authorship, is indisputable[.]

I don't dispute it, but after all, these are but words.

[Joe Zollars]

Keble,

what are you saying is just words? the Apostolic Canons? if so, is the Bible just words?

Nicholas Zollars