Moderator: Mark Templet
Nicholas wrote:Let us pretend that tomorrow you wake up to the radio announcing that ROCOR has agreed to merge itself into the MP. You check online and the newspaper as well as the TV, and it is an undeniable fact. What would your reaction be?
My reaction would be: how on earth did this manage to make the American news? :mrgreen:
I voted "celebrate."
Cheers,
CP
Christ is in our midst!
He is and ever shall be!
To the readership:
I am not opening a new discussion of any jurisdictional issues with
this posting. I am simply making a statement I feel I must in light
of the current climate. I am thoroughly opposed to certain activity
and cannot in good conscience remain silent.
In light of the seemingly ill-advised situation going on in
ROCOR, I and my wife will, hopefully for the time being, be
asserting our allegiance to the Synod of +Metropolitan Kiprianos Of
Oropos & Fili. We will still partake of the ministrations of the
Serbian church until such a time as a parish can be established to
meet our needs. We will, however, maintain prayerful communion with
both ROCOR and the ROCiE, but choose at this time to assume a stance
of neutrality in their division. We, furthermore, will cease in
actively pursuing the life in the Mysteries in ROCOR, with small
exceptions such as pilgrimages. In this statement, we wish to
affirm historical ROCOR and its legacy and disassociate ourselves
from the current and seemingly ruinous path of union undertaken. If
it is born out that we are in error, we humbly seek the forgiveness
of those whom we slight and/or have slighted. This decision has
taken some time and has not been entered into lightly and is by no
means final. Much prayer and soul searching on our parts has
brought this decision about. We do not wish anyone ill. We will
continue apart, living our life in Christ, showing charity to those
who come to us and trying humbly to seek after the one thing
needful. In none of this should it be understood that we will ever
consider ceasing to confess the Holy Orthodox Faith.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
Rostislav & Elizabeth Malleev-Pokrovsky
PS With this statement, we wish to affirm the moderate ecclesiology
of the Synod in Resistance with the understanding that the issue of
the Calendar Schism does not act to negate the grace of the
Mysteries of those who follow it. We, furthermore, believe that
ecumenism is the pan-heresy of our time. Although uncondemned, we
understand that it is the witness of the Saints to abandon communion
with bodies engaging in error in the affirmation of Orthodoxy and
the hopes that amendment be forthwith. We do understand that the
Patriarchate of Serbia has officially made statements to pull out of
the ecumenical movement, however, not fully implementing its
decisions. It is with this understanding that we continue in the
life in the Mysteries in her, that the intent of the Patriarchate of
Serbia is to abandon ecumenism. We understand that the Synod In
Resistance is not recognized by the Serbian Patriarchate, but, as an
intermediary and neutral step, in our situation, it is the only
prudent action to take. In regards to the issue of renovationism,
we remain stalwartly against these abberations in church life and
pray our Master will soon bring an end to things scandalous and
ruinous to the the soul. No where in this do we assert the
gracelessness of any jurisdiction, but, rather, we affirm the need
for Orthodox unity in Truth without compromise.
Orthodoxia I Thanatos!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky
Jelizaveta Georgievna Malleeva-Pokrovskaja
Read this! Ready or not here it comes!
Rostislav,
Your stance is interesting, in that you say you will remain in preyerful communionm with ROCOR >AND< ROCiE, yet you cannot attend a ROCOR parish, and will align yourself with the Synod of Metroplitan Cyrpian of Oropos & Fili, but attend a Serbian Patriarchal parish!
It is interesting in that the Synod of Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos & Fili, I would think, since they ARE in communion with ROCOR, shows no qualitative difference from ROCOR. The fact that you are able to attend a Serbian Patriarchal parishm on the strength of your hope that they "will stop" participating in the ecumenical movement, seems to me, at best, a real stretch. While there are some Serbian bishops who are indeed against participating in the ecumenical movement, there are certainly just as many, or possibly (to be honest, PROBABLY) more, that are decidedly NOT against it.
ROCiE has condemned BOTH ROCOR and the Serbian Patriarchate as arch-ecumenists, and God only knows what else!
I cannot understand what your "problem" with ROCOR could be! Possibly "union" with the MP is being sought n the hope that the MP "will stop" participating in the ecumenical movement!
Very, very confusing . . .
Michael Woerl
I said that I would NOT claim a jurisdictional affiliation with ROCOR and the ROCiE while I would maintain prayerful communion, which would mean praying with either and I would include the ROAC. And let it be clear, that while we will maintain allegiance to Greek Old Calendarist resistors, we will ever remain Russian Orthodox, for that is who we were born as. We will maintain fidelity to the historic witness and positions of ROCOR and will reflect that in our dialogue along with the precious pearl we receive from the Greek tradition. I further stated that on occasions of pilgrimages, etc., I would partake of the Mysteries of these Russian factions. Hardly is any side certain in its position; therefore, I maintain neutrality. ROCiE has organizational issues and needs time to mature. ROCOR is entering into a ruinous path of Communion with the mp. ROAC defies understanding with its extremist ecclesiology. Whilst some misguided people seem to think that union with the mp will be a panacea, I fail to see how embarking upon communion with a body which communes latins and recognizes their "mysteries" as in any way consistent with the historical witness of ROCOR. The questions of ecumenism, renovationism, sergianism, bolshevik "autocephalies" and the calendar reform remain unattended and neglected in the face of the historical witness of ROCOR. Some would argue, including myself, especially with the recent "pennance" of +Metropolitan Laurus, that these principles are betrayed. Such an unsavoury situation is not consistent and demands fidelity to the historical witness of ROCOR, which I will maintain until the end of my life. Therefore, it becomes clearer, that as a resistor, I must embark on a different path. "Until such a time" in regard to the Serbian church is written in my statement. It reflects the reality of my passing, fading yet always present and tempering in a historical sense, ROCOR affiliation. Where I live in Phoenix, we have no Kiprianite parishes; therefore, we must work to establish one. Until such a time, we will maintain neutrality amongst the Russian factions, seeing a different path. The commentary on the Serbian church is fascinating and a microcosmic questioning of the policy of ROCOR in regard to the Serbian Patriarchate. For the same reasons with the same inconsistencies, it is reasoned that the Serbian church will be a harbour for us. If Blessed +Metropolitan Philaret did not sever Communion with them, neither can I. I should hope you examine the positions of ROCOR over the years with due dilligence to examine why Communion with the Serbs was maintained--perhaps then the inconsistencies may be reconciled for you, perhaps not. Our position, however, is clear. We will not endorse false union with the sergianists and see a loss in legitimacy to the voice of ROCOR, a betrayal of her forebears. Therefore, to us, ROCOR becomes equivalent to ROCiE, MP, OCA, PJ, ROAC, etc. as a faction in a politicized, unpotable stew. Our allegiance to the Synod of +Metropolitan Kiprianos is maintained as an affirmation of our identity as loyal children of the historical witness to ROCOR, which we now see has passed. We will grow in our Orthodoxy, but we will never forget who we are and how we were formed--this will colour out path and our participation "elsewhere". The issue of Communion betwixt Resistor Bodies and ROCOR will probaby come to a similar ruinous end. sic transit gloria mundi... It behooves us--resistors--, soon as a separate organism, to try and work toward unity and some sort of common cause with a moderate message centered in piety, spirituality, Patristic understandings of the Fathers, the Canons, Orthodox theology with the hope of pursuing the thought and renewal of the Kollyvades Fathers. In none of this should we seek to deny the Gospel to anyone but to witness our Master Christ Jesusto the world in LOVE and TRUTH. All issues will be decided, ultimately, in faithfulness and evangelization.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky
PS Time will make the truth of the matter fully known, but our, I and my wife's, energies are now directed elsewhere, with no real malice, but, simply, a disappointment at how things have transpired. Once the ecumenists, renovationists, new calendarists, sergianists celebrate Orthodoxy in COMMON CONFESSION WITH US, foregoing their errors, we shall share MUTUAL PENANCE and mutual forgiveness and be one Church, until then we will CONFESS the Truth imparted to us by the WITNESS OF THE MARTYRS and the TEACHINGS of the SAINTS, SANCTIFIED in the HOLY SPIRIT ENHYPOSTATASIZED in CHRIST JESUS. May this happen at the "last flowering".
a) i have studied the historical path of the rocor quite a bit.
b) i do not see union with the mp as a panacea, or even as something a little bit good-would that be a minicea? or a itty-bitty-cea?
c) i know why the rocor never broke communion with the serbs ("they sheltered us in our time of need . . ." etc., etc.), but, despite father john shaw's protestations, i am not sure that the serbs did not break communion with the rocor . . .
d) i think you mean "resistERS" . . . ain't "resistORS" some kinda electrical thing-a-ma-jig, sorta like a "transister"---oooooppps-i mean "transistor." i guess a transister is a -uh- well, never mind.
michael woerl (NOT a russian last name, as you will note, but a german last name. deutschland uber alles! just kiddin, just kiddin!)
Fr. Anthony Nelson, a Priest I remember as a seminarian, is fond of saying, "AND THIS TOO SHALL PASS."
So be it. The faithful have a decision to make. So do the clergy. Let every one follow his conscience, and in the end, let all final decisions be made without malice and all separations be with dignity as this morass is leading to a great divorce for many.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
R M Malleev-Pokrovsky
PS "resistor" vs "resister" LOL! If I didn't know any better I'd swear Vladyka Tikhon was here now correcting spelling...