Florovsky article: your comments solicited

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OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

I would also like to add that the new-calendar recognition of "Baptism" outside their church is nothing else than the recognition of magic.

After all, what other word describes a supernatural effect based only on a proper formula (a very defective one at that), and not dependent on any other factor? As if Christ and His Church is bound to act and be whereever He hears the formula recited a certain way. :ohvey:

Why not Holy Communion too? How come the heretics cannot say the same prayers as the Orthodox and effect the Mystery of Holy Communion????? Or is that next for the ecumenist church?

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Seraphim Reeves
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Hocus Pocus

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

"Hocus Pocus" is what the Protestants during the reformation used to derisively refer to the Latin doctrine of the sacraments...we still use this term to this day, to refer to acts of magic and conjuring, typically in jest. The words are a corruption of the Latin "form" of the Eucharist, as found in the various old Latin liturgies.

It seems to me the "Orthodox" ecumenists have pretty much adopted the RC doctrine of the sacraments and their efficacy, which does amount to a form of "magic", that anyone possessing the right ingredients and "intention" can make happen. Hence, an atheist Jew nurse, or a Unitarian physician, could "validly" baptize an infant in an emergency, according to papist teaching, if she was so disposed to go along with such an arrangement.

Such a system of course relies on a complete ignorance of what any of the Fathers (western or eastern) had to say on this topic, let alone key documents like the Canons of St.Basil, Apostolic Canons, etc. It is not surprising that the Roman Catholics believe in such, since their religion has been perverted and alienated from truth for a millenia now, a process that only grows with each passing year.

But for "Orthodox" people to begin teaching an indistinguishable doctrine, is very disheartening. The only thing I can say, is that such people are also "alienated" from the truth, as the Papists are. Like the Latins, they don't really care what the Fathers have to say, and in their own fashion have been playing catch up with the Roman Catholics with their own version of "development of doctrine" (save for them, it's a process that only has a history of a century, rather than a millenium.)

Saying that a schismatical or heretical "church" can call upon the Holy Spirit, would follow the same logic as saying the offerings of the false temple of the Northern Kingdom, were genuine sacrifices and pleasing to God, in the way that the offerings made in Solomon's Temple were... or worse yet, that the priests of baal can call down fire upon offerings just as the Prophet Elijah could.

Such a mentality, is "magic" - the sacraments cease to be liturgical prayers, prayers of the Church asking God for great graces He has promised to those in His fold, but a kind of kabbalistic magic in which we can somehow twist God's arm and make Him "perform" for us, whenever and however we see fit. Hence, by this rationale, a simoniac occultist, who paid a deposed "bishop" to "ordain" him, could genuinely obtain the Priesthood of Christ, and call the Holy Spirit down upon his foul "altar", and hold whatever kind of strange, syncretistic/gnostic rituals he feels inclined to...with a "valid eucharistic formula" thrown in, of course.

Seraphim

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