Change in ROCOR?

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Alexis in Alaska
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Post by Alexis in Alaska »

No I think you are right on. And the mental work that needs to be done is in the area of ecclesiology or rather recovering the authentic Orthodox view of "Church." Because not all Jurisdictions have done the necessary theological work to think the ecumenical movement to its logical end: which is the creation of "FutureChurch" as they like to call it. The false Church that has within itself every religious principle and who professes unity not on Faith, but Unity for it's own sake, a kind of metaphysical union.

Mind you some of the more faithful Jurisdictions such as ROAC for example are very exlusivist when it comes to how they view themselves; and see that there are very few Orthodox left in the world. But the reality is that their ecclesiology is THE Orthodox ecclesiology about itself. The Orthodox Church is the Church, period. The only time we need to be concerning ourselves with members of other religions is when we are evangelizing them. Learning about other religions should serve not to improve "dialogue", but rather to improve the chances of reaching their people with the Gospel of the Holy Orthodox Faith.

away
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Post by away »

It certainly is extremely confusing, all the different Churches.

Can it be any other way though? Things are so far gone, surely the Grace of God alone shields us from the full extent of our situation and the problem of the divisions. Great temptations and cosmic decisions.

I dont know what to do. I would like to be a part of a real Church that was not tainted by the heresies, but the complications are so many.

Mousethief
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Post by Mousethief »

AlaskanOrthodox wrote:

The Orthodox Church is the Church, period.

I don't know any Orthodox who doesn't believe this. Even in the so-called "ecumenist churches".

The only time we need to be concerning ourselves with members of other religions is when we are evangelizing them.

I take it you don't buy groceries, or lunch, or anything, from members of other religions? This is an absurd statement.

Learning about other religions should serve not to improve "dialogue", but rather to improve the chances of reaching their people with the Gospel of the Holy Orthodox Faith.

Why are these mutually exclusive?

Hey, catch a clue, traditionalists: "ecumenist" orthodox are in dialogue with other churches because we want to subvert the process and introduce them to Orthodoxy, not because we want to join some amorphous "future church."

:roll:

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Seraphim Reeves
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It would be nice if this were true

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

Mousethief,

Hey, catch a clue, traditionalists: "ecumenist" orthodox are in dialogue with other churches because we want to subvert the process and introduce them to Orthodoxy, not because we want to join some amorphous "future church."

It would be nice if this were true, but it obviously is not. They're creating the anti-Christ's "church", a shifty creedless body, which will first be "pan-Christian" (including all heresies), but soon become "pan-everything".

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Canon XLV of the Holy Apostles

"Let any Bishop, or Presbyter, or deacon that merely joins in prayer with heretics be suspended, but if he had permitted them to perform any service as Clergymen, let him be deposed."

Canon XXXIII of Laodicia

"One must not join in prayer with heretics or schismatics."

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Canon XLVI (46)

We order that a bishop or presbyter that recognized the baptism or sacrifice of heretics be defrocked. For "what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?" (2 Cor. 6:15).

Canon XLVII (47)

If a bishop or presbyter baptize anew anyone that has had a true baptism, or fail to baptize someone that had been polluted by the impious, let him be defrocked, on the grounds that he is mocking the cross and death of the Lord, and fails to distinguish priests from false priests.

(Which makes me wonder, if he's technically not even baptized, how can Athenagoras be treating him like a true bishop, even joining him to offer a mixed crowd pontifical blessings?)

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5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens. (Psalm 95:5)

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But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1st Corinthians 10:20)

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The "religion of the future"?

IOW... While I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for repeating ecumenism's lie (specially tailored for those of "semi-traditionalistic" understanding regarding the faith, who otherwise would have nothing to do with ecumenism or it's participants), the material fact (at the very least) is that you've been lied to about this pan-heresy's import.

Seraphim

Last edited by Seraphim Reeves on Mon 13 October 2003 12:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

Seraphim,

Who is that in the 3rd picture?

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Seraphim Reeves
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Daniel

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

I'm not sure exactly who it is - obviously some misc. "world Orthodoxy" heirarch; I'm guessing a Metropolitan of some sort.

Seraphim

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Seraphim Reeves
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NOTICE

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

I've ammended my initial "ecumenism in pictures" post (additional photo and commentary)

Seraphim

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