Timeline Of When Each Local Western Church Fell From Grace (Great Schism)

Feel free to tell our little section of the Internet why you're right. Forum rules apply.


User avatar
BenjaminMcCraw
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed 29 January 2025 8:35 pm
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Soon to be (GOC-K) previously ROCOR-MP

Re: Timeline Of When Each Local Western Church Fell From Grace (Great Schism)

Post by BenjaminMcCraw »

haralampopoulosjc wrote: Sat 9 August 2025 6:52 pm

Regarding Cyriacus, perhaps he could be forgiven for not fully understanding the situation in Italy and Europe more broadly at the time. He was being overrun by Muslims after all.

Regarding Ireland, wouldn't the First Synod of Cashel in 1101 be the first instance of the Gregorian Reforms being implemented in Ireland? 1101, 1111, and 1172 seem to be significant dates regarding the fall of the Celtic Church from grace.

High King of Ireland Diarmait mac Máel na mBó (r. 1072) was an Orthodox monarch. The surviving sons of King Harold Godwinson of England escaped to Leinster after the Battle of Hastings in 1066, where they were hosted by Diarmait. In 1068 and 1069, Diarmait lent them the fleet of Dublin for their attempted reconquest of England. In 1068, Diarmait presented another Irish king with Harold's battle standard.

Of course we could give the bishop of Carthage the benefit of the doubt especially since he died a year after the Gregorian Reforms were published, but if that be the case we would argue that until the see of Carthage remained vacant they remained faithful.

It could be the First Synod of Cashel, it was nearly the same people and only ten years prior under the presidency of the Bishop of Meath Máel Muire Ua Dúnáin and the patronage of the High King Muirchertach Ua Briain. I hesitate though and I would love to get my hands on the primary sources because I suspect the people giving the overview of the council are confusing it's proceedings with the Second Synod of Cashel. For example to my knowledge the only canons that the First Synod gave were the 8 on lay marriage trying to address and break the 7 degree marriage practice.

High King Muirchertach Ua Britain's father was High King Toirdhealbhach ua Briain and he was the ally of Diarmait mac Máel na mBó who was High King before him. Seems on all accounts that he did not fall into heresy, but his faithless son did.

User avatar
haralampopoulosjc
Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 3 June 2025 9:22 pm
Faith: True Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC (Stephanos)
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Timeline Of When Each Local Western Church Fell From Grace (Great Schism)

Post by haralampopoulosjc »

Hungary: Coloman sent envoys to the Council of Guastalla, which had been convoked by Pope Paschal II. In October 1106, the envoys solemnly informed the pope of their king's renunciation of his royal prerogative to appoint the prelates of his realms (which is interesting, because up until this point Coloman rejected the Gregorian Reforms and exercised the royal authority to invest his bishops and abbots).

User avatar
haralampopoulosjc
Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 3 June 2025 9:22 pm
Faith: True Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC (Stephanos)
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Timeline Of When Each Local Western Church Fell From Grace (Great Schism)

Post by haralampopoulosjc »

Image

New Timeline:

  • England (1066, Battle of Hastings)

  • Spain (1080, Council of Burgos)

  • Poland (1096, Expulsion of the Tyniec monks)

  • Bohemia (1096, Expulsion of the monks of Sázava Monastery)

  • Italy (1100, Death of Pope Saint Clement III AKA Wibert of Ravenna)

  • France (1104, Philip I of France submits to Pope Paschal II)

  • Hungary (1106, King Coloman of Hungary sent envoys to the Council of Guastalla, which had been convoked by Pope Paschal II. In October 1106, the envoys solemnly informed the pope of their king's renunciation of his royal prerogative to appoint the prelates of his realms)

  • Germany (1111, Holy Roman Emperor Henry V submits to Pope Paschal II, who performs his coronation)

  • Ireland (1111, Synod of Ráth Breasail, convened by the papal legate, Gille, Bishop of Limerick. The synod was attended by no fewer than fifty bishops, three hundred priests and three thousand laymen, including King Murtough O'Brien. The synod's deliberations were prompted by the Gregorian Reform and guided by the relatively new powers of the Papacy as defined in the Dictatus papa and Libertas ecclesiae)

User avatar
haralampopoulosjc
Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 3 June 2025 9:22 pm
Faith: True Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC (Stephanos)
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Timeline Of When Each Local Western Church Fell From Grace (Great Schism)

Post by haralampopoulosjc »

Denmark: 1072, King Sweyn II of Denmark wanted to secure the independence of the Danish church from the Archbishopric of Hamburg-Bremen, which, up until he died in 1072, was occupied by Archbishop Adalbert, a supporter of Henry IV and fierce anti-Hildebrandian. After Archbishop Adalbert's death, Sweyn II was able to communicate freely with his "personal friend" Pope Gregory VII. But, it wasn't until 1104 when King Sweyn's son Eric I travelled to Rome and obtained an archbishopric for Denmark (now Lund in Scania), instead of being under the Archbishop of Hamburg-Bremen, that Sweyn's dream was realized. Bishop Asser then became the first Archbishop of Lund. (Note: Archbishop Adalbert's successor, Archbishop Liemar of Hamburg-Bremen, was an even fiercer opponent of the Gregorian reforms and even participated in the Synod of Brixen in 1080, which anathematized Hildebrand)

Norway: King Harald Hardrada of Norway was kind of bad-a. Before becoming king, Harald spent 15 years in exile as a mercenary and military commander in Kievan Rus' and chief of the Varangian Guard in the Byzantine Empire. In his chronicle, Adam of Bremen called him the "Thunderbolt of the North". Saint Olaf Haraldsson was his half-brother, and he served as a captain in the army of Saint Yaroslav the Wise. His son, King Olaf III fully submitted to the Archbishop of Hamburg-Bremen whose occupants during his reign were Archbishop Adalbert and Archbishop Liemar, making Olaf III an Orthodox monarch. The Church of Norway seems to have capitulated to the Hildebrandians in 1104, when their bishops submitted to the newly founded Archdiocese of Lund. Magnus Barefoot (r. 1103) was the last Orthodox monarch of Norway, and his sons, who succeeded him as co-rulers, participated in the Crusades.

Sweden: Emund the Old was King of Sweden from c. 1050 to c. 1060. His short reign was characterised by disputes with the Archbishopric of Bremen over church policies, and a historically debated delimitation of the Swedish-Danish border. Our only near-contemporary source for Emund's reign is Adam of Bremen, who paints a very negative picture of the new ruler. This is mainly due to the self-willed attitude of Emund vis-à-vis the Archdiocese of Bremen. Adam relates that Emund was baptised but cared very little for the Christian faith. He also gives Emund the cognomen pessimus (worst), which is later reflected by the short chronicle of the Westrogothic law (c. 1240) which likewise knows the king as Slemme, the bad.[7] The Westrogothic law states that Emund was a disagreeable man when wanting to pursue a goal.[8]

The dispute with Bremen was triggered by Emund's insistence on maintaining a bishop called Osmundus. Originally a protégé of the Norwegian-based missionary Sigfrid, Osmundus had been raised at a school in Bremen but failed to be ordained bishop by the Pope. Eventually, he was ordained by the Polish archbishop of Gniezno and proceeded to Sweden, where he won the confidence of King Emund. In the mid-1050s, the Archbishop of Bremen sent envoys to Sweden, headed by Adalvard the Elder, who was intended as the new bishop. The delegation was highly offended when encountering Osmundus, who sported the habits of an archbishop and "seduced the still recently converted wild peoples through incorrect education in our faith". On Osmundus' insistence, Emund turned the envoys away from an assembly. However, the Swedish magnate Stenkil, a relation of the king, escorted the delegation on its way back.

Anund from Russia was King of Sweden around 1070, according to Adam of Bremen's Gesta Hammaburgensis ecclesiae pontificum. According to this source, Anund came from Kievan Rus', presumably from Aldeigjuborg. Gårdske means that he came from Gardariki, which was one of the Scandinavian names for Kievan Rus'.

As a Christian, he refused to carry out the public sacrifice to the Norse gods, presumably at the Temple at Uppsala, and was consequently deposed. He "left the Thing in joy, for having been found worthy to suffer disgrace for the name of Jesus". This happened shortly before the completion of Adam of Bremen's chronicle in the mid-1070s.

Inge the Elder was a king of Sweden. While scant sources do not allow a full picture of his term of kingship, he is known to have led a turbulent but at length successful reign of more than two decades. He stands out as a devout Christian who founded the first abbey in Sweden and acted harshly against pagan practices. Vreta Abbey was founded by him on the orders of Pope Paschal II. He also recognized the Archdiocese of Lund when it was founded in 1104.

User avatar
haralampopoulosjc
Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 3 June 2025 9:22 pm
Faith: True Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC (Stephanos)
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Timeline Of When Each Local Western Church Fell From Grace (Great Schism)

Post by haralampopoulosjc »

Iceland: Ísleifur Gissurarson (c. 1006 – 5 July 1080), an Icelandic clergyman, became the first bishop of Iceland, following the adoption of Christianity in 1000 AD. He was an Orthodox bishop.

His parents were Gissur Teitsson and Þórdís Þóroddsdóttir. After studying in Herford in Germany, he was made bishop of Iceland in 1056 by Athelbjart, archbishop of Bremen. He built up a see in his family homestead in Skálholt and founded a school. One of his students was Jón Ögmundarson (1052-1121), who later became the first bishop in Hólar. Ísleifur served as bishop for 24 years, right until his death. His wife was Dalla Þorvaldsdóttir and they had three sons: Þorvaldur, Teitur and Gissur, the latter taking over as bishop after his father's death in 1080.

After the death of Bishop Ísleifr in 1081, the people of Iceland requested the election of Gizurr, his son, then forty years of age. Like his father, Gizurr had received his education in Herford in Saxony; he had also travelled to Rome with his wife and spent a year in Denmark before being consecrated bishop of Iceland. His connection to the Gregorian cause is evident from the time of his consecration. Due to Archbishop Liemar’s suspension, Gizurr could not be consecrated in Hamburg-Bremen and went directly to the pope. Gregory VII had him consecrated by the archbishop of Magdeburg, Hartwig of Spanheim (1079–1102), a trustworthy spokesman of the papal party in the investiture controversy (1076–1122). According to Hungrvaka, the archbishop received Gizurr with honour and distinction, and consecrated him on 4 September 1082; he also provided him with ‘everything that was needed’, possibly robes and other episcopal paraphernalia, or material relating to canon law. Before returning to Iceland, Gizurr spent a further year in Norway, where he accomplished his first duty on behalf of his people, confirming his father’s oath to King Óláfr kyrri Haraldsson (1066–93), and thus accepting the provisions regarding the rights of the Icelanders in Norway.

It seems that Gizurr travelled to Rome during the peak of the controversy between pope and emperor, and that he told the pope all the troubles he had suffered on the way. In Rome, it is possible that Gizurr was subjected to the Gregorian proselytizing and ‘charismatic leadership’ to which the pope exposed many foreign visitors with the hope of turning them into trusted Gregorians. Gregory VII’s persuasion may have been even more convincing in the case of Gizurr, who met the pope during or immediately after Henry IV’s second siege of Rome (summer 1082). Gizurr’s two visits to Rome may also be interpreted as signs of personal obedience to the pope, who had often stressed that bishops should demonstrate their devotion to Peter and his vicar by coming ad limina apostolorum (to the threshold of the apostles).

Once back in Iceland in 1083, it is apparent that Gizurr organized and strengthened the church in Iceland according to the directives of the Roman church. First, the bishop had a church built and attached to his ancestral land at Skálholt, which he intended to become the bishop’s see ‘for as long as Christianity was maintained in Iceland’. The association between the Icelandic and the Roman church was strengthened by the dedication of this new cathedral to the Virgin and St Peter. Iceland thus became the first country in Scandinavia to have a (cathedral) church dedicated to the Apostle Peter, a significant move at a time when Gregory VII was giving particular importance to the prince of the apostles and to his own role as his vicar. Hungrvaka defines Skálholt as ‘the spiritual mother of all the other consecrated buildings in Iceland’, and its implicit association with St Peter’s Basilica in Rome is made explicit in Petrs saga postola II, the thirteenth-century hagiographical saga of the apostle.

User avatar
haralampopoulosjc
Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue 3 June 2025 9:22 pm
Faith: True Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC (Stephanos)
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Timeline Of When Each Local Western Church Fell From Grace (Great Schism)

Post by haralampopoulosjc »

Now the only thing that remains is determining when Scotland and Wales capitulated.

User avatar
BenjaminMcCraw
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed 29 January 2025 8:35 pm
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Soon to be (GOC-K) previously ROCOR-MP

Re: Timeline Of When Each Local Western Church Fell From Grace (Great Schism)

Post by BenjaminMcCraw »

Fantastic work! We are almost there. Don't forget Southern Italy, Malta, possibly Greenland and the Baltics. I'm working on Scotland, I know it's around the Davidian revolution from the reign of King David mac Maíl Choluim of Scotland in 1124 but i haven't pinpointed a single event yet.

Post Reply