Discord Spillover Was "The Place of Blessed Augustine in the Orthodox Church"

[ByzantophileTheodore]

Unseen,

No one was bashing Esphigmenou in our discord, and that’s a very unfair accusation. We have always supported Esphigmenou as the last Orthodox monastery on the Holy Mountain. When we heard on July 22nd that the Greek police were preparing to raid them, I asked everyone to pray for the monks. 26 people reacted to that prayer request (that’s a lot for us).

Some people in our discord have asked what synod the monks are with, and others answered accurately that the monks are currently not part of any synod. This is a statement of facts and not a criticism or (God forbid) a denial of their Orthodoxy. Some others brought up Esphigmenou’s opposition to barcodes as a point of respectful disagreement, but this is par for the course in a server where there are many different opinions about small matters like that.

There is no heresy of ‘super-correctness’, and to my knowledge that’s not even what Fr. Seraphim meant when he described HTM & Fr. Panteleimon as ‘super-correct’. No synod has ever anathematized ‘super-correctness’. In the end, what transpired between Fr. Seraphim and HTM was a brotherly dispute within ROCOR. Fr. Seraphim was right about Evolution and the Tollhouses, but HTM was stricter than him about giving communion to Newcalendarists. Saint Philaret never cut ties with HTM, and some of the only recorded audio we have of the Saint comes from his visit to HTM.

We shouldn’t ever use just one person as the only litmus test for what Orthodoxy is. This is what the Miaphysite heretics do with St. Cyril of Alexandria (or their distortions of him), and this is what Fr. Seraphim believed HTM was sometimes doing with Fr. Panteleimon. It would be extremely ironic and false to make Fr. Seraphim into the Pope of True Orthodoxy. He would have called that ridiculous and wrong. We believe in the consensus of the Fathers.

Finally, I did not equate you to Gregory of Denver. I simply pointed out that his completely over-the-top demonization of HTM and Fr. Panteleimon has shaped a lot of opinion regarding HTM. I must say that like Gregory, you seem to insist that there was nothing of value from old HTM and no Orthodoxy there.

[Unseen.Warfare]

Again, you’re putting words in my mouth. I never insisted that HTM has no value. You’re trying to paint me into a corner. Revisionism is a little more serious than “super correctness” but it is rooted in super correctness . You’re lying. Someone did say the monks were at fault for their current persecution and they said it’s because they aren’t in a True Orthodox Jurisdiction and are not under a bishop..What if the monks are right? I don’t just base my Orthodoxy on Fr. Seraphim that’s another claim that was used as an insult. On the topic of the Tollhouses and The Place of Blessed Augustine he’s right. Where exactly did I say anything about heresy? Where did I say they had no value? So again. You’re calling me Greg once again for stating the facts. I highly doubt Saint Philaret would have agreed with them about The Tollhouses or Saint Augustine which is the topic. Would he agree with them thinking they are the only truly orthodox? Or how about them saying “Don’t trust the Russians” or Evolution which is definitely not a Orthodox take.

Fr. Seraphim Rose didn’t give New Calendarist communion in the way you are presenting it.

Just because I bring up the truth does not mean that I’m not aware that they were on good terms at one time and did good things, although that’s how you want to interpret things to feel “right”.

You’ve resorted to childish insults like claiming I see Fr. Seraphim as the Pope of True Orthodoxy. Anyone who has read Fr. Seraphim Rose knows one man isn’t the basis for your Orthodoxy. I just posted one of his books on Saint Augustine in this forum. In the same way St. Paisius Velichkovsky brought to life the patristic wisdom of the Fathers, so too did Fr. Seraphim Rose, so it would be impossible to view him that way if you’d actually read his work. I think the reality is you feel slighted because you see that same Super correct mentality in yourself.

More letters. This wasn’t just a “Brotherly dispute”. We don’t need to speculate Or manipulate.

Also, the whole barcodes thing wasn’t a “respectful” disagreement. It was borderline mockery.

“I did not equate you with Greg”. Next sentence. “You’re like Greg in this way”. That’s equating me with Greg and it’s also slander because I never once said they weren’t of any value even if you continue to repeat it and believe your own lie. If I’m posting about Saint Augustine and I bring up letters dealing with the reason the book was written… Why would I present earlier letters that don’t deal with the topic? You’re acting like I did something shady.

[ByzantophileTheodore]

Again, you’re putting words in my mouth. I never insisted that HTM has no value. You’re trying to paint me into a corner. Revisionism is a little more serious than “super correctness” but it is rooted in super correctness . You’re lying. Someone did say the monks were at fault for their current persecution and they said it’s because they aren’t in a True Orthodox Jurisdiction and are not under a bishop..What if the monks are right? I don’t just base my Orthodoxy on Fr. Seraphim that’s another claim that was used as an insult. On the topic of the Tollhouses and The Place of Blessed Augustine he’s right. Where exactly did I say anything about heresy? Where did I say they had no value? So again. You’re calling me Greg once again for stating the facts. I highly doubt Saint Philaret would have agreed with them about The Tollhouses or Saint Augustine which is the topic. Would he agree with them thinking they are the only truly orthodox? Or how about them saying “Don’t trust the Russians” or Evolution which is definitely not a Orthodox take.

Fr. Seraphim Rose didn’t give New Calendarist communion in the way you are presenting it.

Just because I bring up the truth does not mean that I’m not aware that they were on good terms at one time and did good things, although that’s how you want to interpret things to feel “right”.

You’ve resorted to childish insults like claiming I see Fr. Seraphim as the Pope of True Orthodoxy. Anyone who has read Fr. Seraphim Rose knows one man isn’t the basis for your Orthodoxy. I just posted one of his books on Saint Augustine in this forum. In the same way St. Paisius Velichkovsky brought to life the patristic wisdom of the Fathers, so too did Fr. Seraphim Rose, so it would be impossible to view him that way if you’d actually read his work. I think the reality is you feel slighted because you see that same Super correct mentality in yourself.

More letters. This wasn’t just a “Brotherly dispute”. We don’t need to speculate Or manipulate.

Also, the whole barcodes thing wasn’t a “respectful” disagreement. It was borderline mockery.

“I did not equate you with Greg”. Next sentence. “You’re like Greg in this way”. That’s equating me with Greg and it’s also slander because I never once said they weren’t of any value even if you continue to repeat it and believe your own lie. If I’m posting about Saint Augustine and I bring up letters dealing with the reason the book was written… Why would I present earlier letters that don’t deal with the topic? You’re acting like I did something shady.

You broke our server rules, went into a rage when anyone had something positive to say about historical HTM, got banned, and then went on here to create gigantic threads about “Super-Correctness” - nothing more than passive-aggressive attacks on us. As soon as anyone disagrees with you, you always take it very personally. You’ve written some very angry things to our server members. Spiritual reading won’t help you if you treat people like garbage. This is a big issue that I sincerely hope you work on. Now you are spreading slanders that we are against Esphigmenou - a shameful and mean-spirited lie. Anyone here can join our server (True Orthodox Hangout) and see that this is absolutely false. God knows the truth about it and that’s all I have to say.

[Unseen.Warfare]

Again, you’re putting words in my mouth. I never insisted that HTM has no value. You’re trying to paint me into a corner. Revisionism is a little more serious than “super correctness” but it is rooted in super correctness . You’re lying. Someone did say the monks were at fault for their current persecution and they said it’s because they aren’t in a True Orthodox Jurisdiction and are not under a bishop..What if the monks are right? I don’t just base my Orthodoxy on Fr. Seraphim that’s another claim that was used as an insult. On the topic of the Tollhouses and The Place of Blessed Augustine he’s right. Where exactly did I say anything about heresy? Where did I say they had no value? So again. You’re calling me Greg once again for stating the facts. I highly doubt Saint Philaret would have agreed with them about The Tollhouses or Saint Augustine which is the topic. Would he agree with them thinking they are the only truly orthodox? Or how about them saying “Don’t trust the Russians” or Evolution which is definitely not a Orthodox take.

Fr. Seraphim Rose didn’t give New Calendarist communion in the way you are presenting it.

Just because I bring up the truth does not mean that I’m not aware that they were on good terms at one time and did good things, although that’s how you want to interpret things to feel “right”.

You’ve resorted to childish insults like claiming I see Fr. Seraphim as the Pope of True Orthodoxy. Anyone who has read Fr. Seraphim Rose knows one man isn’t the basis for your Orthodoxy. I just posted one of his books on Saint Augustine in this forum. In the same way St. Paisius Velichkovsky brought to life the patristic wisdom of the Fathers, so too did Fr. Seraphim Rose, so it would be impossible to view him that way if you’d actually read his work. I think the reality is you feel slighted because you see that same Super correct mentality in yourself.

More letters. This wasn’t just a “Brotherly dispute”. We don’t need to speculate Or manipulate.

Also, the whole barcodes thing wasn’t a “respectful” disagreement. It was borderline mockery.

“I did not equate you with Greg”. Next sentence. “You’re like Greg in this way”. That’s equating me with Greg and it’s also slander because I never once said they weren’t of any value even if you continue to repeat it and believe your own lie. If I’m posting about Saint Augustine and I bring up letters dealing with the reason the book was written… Why would I present earlier letters that don’t deal with the topic? You’re acting like I did something shady.

You broke our server rules, went into a rage when anyone had something positive to say about historical HTM, got banned, and then went on here to create gigantic threads about “Super-Correctness” - nothing more than passive-aggressive attacks on us. As soon as anyone disagrees with you, you always take it very personally. You’ve written some very angry things to our server members. Spiritual reading won’t help you if you treat people like garbage. This is a big issue that I sincerely hope you work on. Now you are spreading slanders that we are against Esphigmenou - a shameful and mean-spirited lie. Anyone here can join our server (True Orthodox Hangout) and see that this is absolutely false. God knows the truth about it and that’s all I have to say.

It’s not a lie. You fully backed someone saying that esphigmenou was at fault for their current situation. The fact you can’t even bring yourself to admit it tells it all. When I pick apart your argument in a place you can’t kick me out because you can’t control the narrative just like before you’re trying to paint a very negative picture. You wanna strike and cry out in pain. You’ve already proven you’re not honest so it really doesn’t matter. He does know the Truth about it and he knows what all three of you were attempting to do. The only thing shameful is you get called out and try to rewrite what actually happened. You’re lying right now and you and I both know it. You broke your own rules, but it’s a double standard. A lot of projection here. You’re the one who kicked me because I told you he didn’t give communion to New Calendarist in the way you kept saying. I spoke on things that are backed by Fr. Seraphim’s letters, that’s why you replied the way you did. I told you three that Tollhouses are not in the realm of dogma and I told you that the monks were not at fault for that current persecution. It’s not about disagreeing with me. It’s you put words in my mouth to puff yourself up and your ego tripping because you run a discord. Good for you. If you objectively looked at the information I haven’t made a single false claim. You wanna call me Greg of Colorado but cry when I call you super correct. Truth is truth and no matter how many times you try to say “he believes this” that doesn’t make it true. You’re a liar. Yea, because your server members tried ganging up like wolves on me and I let you all have it and I told you I’d never in life back down from any one of you.

You’re defending a Group that rejects Saint Augustine and all the Holy Fathers that speak on the Tollhouses, You backed the narrative that Esphigmenou are at fault for that current persecution and You’re slandering Fr. Seraphim Rose by saying he gave communion to New Calendarist as if he was heretical in his approach and you’re coming at me for pointing out the super correct mentality. It’s fully rooted in you and your homies being super correct.

[Theodore813]

@moderator

[Unseen.Warfare]

Never once did I ever say that HTM didn’t do good things. That’s being put onto me to “win” a argument and hold face. Calling me Greg is to turn people against me. I’m strictly going off the info that everyone can read for themselves in Fr. Seraphim’s letters. That includes them being on good terms at one time. Multiple people tried placing me in that box and it was strategic. I’m just going to say it. You are the softest bunch of dudes I’ve ever encountered in my life. You’re darn right I was angry. The monks at esphigmenou are having armored vehicles pull up and older monks have died because they cut off medical supplies but these guys are defending a narrative that it’s their own fault because they aren’t “canonical”. That was coming straight out the mouth of Bishop Ieronymos of the GOC-M and it was backed although he’s denying it. You said I got angry because someone said something Good about HTM. That’s a full blown lie and you know it. Doesn’t even make sense. I was angry at the super correct mentality point blank period and I pointed out revisionism which is a deviation in Holy Tradition. We are talking about guys who held a protest at Archbishop Averky’s funeral.

This is what I see. I see it perfectly fine for the super correct to do what they do. But… It’s not okay to call it out. It’s almost if people are expected to just let it slide. No. You did the exact same thing to Joel. When he disagreed with you. You kicked him out and trashed him and got the whole group to back you on it and blamed him for standing up for what he believed in. You’re the one who can’t be challenged. You’re the one who can’t stand the heat and you’re the one that broke your own rules and held me to the standards of the rules while you were doing it. Throw your stones and hide your hand. “He’s not even baptized”. As if the Holy Spirit isn’t guiding people towards the Church and the Truth. I’d say he had more discernment unbaptized than you baptized.

If you actually read what I wrote on “super correctness” you wouldn’t mock it. That shows clearly what type of person you are. You don’t look at the information objectively. You’d rather mock it than face it.

[ByzantophileTheodore]

Unseen,
What you’re saying here about our discord is a series of absurd slanders, but at this point it doesn’t phase me much. I hope you repent of this. You brought so much falsehood into the thread since yesterday that I’m forced to respond.

I won’t address anything else to him because behind it all he knows what he did. To set the record straight for everyone else, we didn’t ban him because of his position on old HTM. I know Discord has a bad reputation deservedly, but we try to make our server an exception. We have many people in our server who criticize HTM very much (past and present). We banned Unseen because he broke our rules about respectful discussion. He cussed out a lot of people (including a mentally ill person who was basically harmless). I have screenshot after screenshot of this, but I’m going to take the high road here and not post them here. Not a single person in our discord as far as I’m aware has treated him how he treats others online. Perhaps he calls this “softness” on our part but in reality it is just turning the other cheek. Cussing out people over the internet doesn’t make someone a tough guy. Turning the other cheek is what’s truly tough. He has never apologized to anyone in our server - nobody will lose any sleep over this but it’s worth mentioning. This is all from the person who called people in our server “Super-Correct heretics” over and over, and is still clutching at straws to attack us with.