The Ecumenist False Council of 2016

[Matthew]

The fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays will be greatly diminished as it is already on the agenda of this false council of 2016. No doubt, this means that whenever a Great Feast ... falls on a Wednesday or Friday, then the World Orthodox will abolish the fast through economia and the parishioners will be allowed to eat meat. Currently, on those Great Feast days, fish is allowed, but not meat.

Yes, Maria. But the modernist bishops who want to do this could accomplish nothing in this regard except that first the majority of laity are already breaking the rules and full of laxity in this regard, and they know this. The bishops must instruct their priests to counsel economeia and lightness regarding the fast, accustom the people to breaking the rules (because times are so hard they say) and when they are used to it they will not oppose any proposal to eat meat on Wednesday and fish on friday as a matter of course. Indeed, they will welcome it with rejoicing lustily to the playing of Jigs 'n' Reels.

[Jean-Serge]

The fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays will be greatly diminished as it is already on the agenda of this false council of 2016. No doubt, this means that whenever a Great Feast ... falls on a Wednesday or Friday, then the World Orthodox will abolish the fast through economia and the parishioners will be allowed to eat meat. Currently, on those Great Feast days, fish is allowed, but not meat.

I am not sure they will change this. Anyway, soon, the agreed documents should be made public, so we shall know. The conclusions are the following, the following documents will be discussed and probably approved for the council :

The mission of the church in the current world: project approved by all representatives

The diaspora: project approved by all representatives

The autonomy and its proclamation: project approved by all representatives

The mystery of wedding: churches of Georgia and Antioch rejected the document

Fasting, its importance and practice: project approved by all representatives

The relationship of the church with the rest of the christian world: project approved by all representatives

Source: http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/90127.htm

All approved documents will be published very soon. As far I know, there will be no major changes to fasting, the church of Georgia had already previously said that it could not accept this.

[Jean-Serge]

In fact, the languages of the discussions are Greek, French and Russian. As a consequence, the Moscow Patriarchate has published the approved document that can be read in French at these links :

About other christian confessions: https://mospat.ru/fr/2016/01/28/news127362/

About fasting: https://mospat.ru/fr/2016/01/28/news127360/

About autonomy: https://mospat.ru/fr/2016/01/28/news127358/

About the church in the current world: https://mospat.ru/fr/2016/01/28/news127353/

About wedding: https://mospat.ru/fr/2016/01/28/news127389/ (not approved by Antioch and Mskheta, Georgia)

[Maria]

Thank you, Jean-Serge

In the Greek Archdiocese (GOARCH) back in the late 1990s, the priests allowed chicken to be served on Sunday banquets during the Fast fo the Nativity and during Great Lent for Palm Sunday. That practice stopped to the consternation of many parishioners who wanted to have their chicken during the fast.

On Sunday afternoons during the Apostles Fast and during the Fast of the Theotokos, when weddings are allowed in the Greek Church (GOARCH), the parish hall still serves chicken dinners to all at the wedding receptions. However, they serve fish or vegetables to the clergy. At my son's wedding, the couple had to specifically request extra vegetarian dishes for the laity.

So, here in the USA, some in World Orthodoxy are ready to abolish the fast, when and wherever possible.

[Jean-Serge]

I quickly read the documents. I would say there is nothing new under the sun and to translate a French expression, "the mountain is giving birth to a mouse".

The document regarding fasting looks good, emphasizing fasting and explaining in some cases, for pastoral reasons, it can be mitigated (sickness etc). There is no abolition.

[Maria]

I quickly read the documents. I would say there is nothing new under the sun and to translate a French expression, "the mountain is giving birth to a mouse".

The document regarding fasting looks good, emphasizing fasting and explaining in some cases, for pastoral reasons, it can be mitigated (sickness etc). There is no abolition.

The movement to abolish or mitigate the fast was led by the current Ecumenical Patriarch, Bartholomew and his friends.

Not surprisingly, this was the agenda of the EP Meletios Metaxakis even while St. Nectarios was living as St. Nectarios wrote some publications attacking the modernist agenda which included getting rid of the priestly frock, priestly facial hair, the fast, and the Old Calendar. Almost immediately after St. Nectarios died in 1920, and his voice was silenced, in 1924 Metaxakis unilaterally imposed the Gregorian Calendar, which greatly shortened the Apostles' Fast by 13 days, and in some years, even abolished it.

However, during the pre-council meetings in 2015, the EP and his friends faced unexpected opposition by the Old Calendarist MP and his allies who rejected any attempt to mitigate or abolish the fast.

Thus, the EP was not able to accomplish his planned agenda.

[Matthew]

It is my belief, that if one looks at how the majority of layfolk in Orthodoxy lived in the 1800s and even in Greece before WW2, the monastics of our times would have a hard time keeping up. Many did not eat more than once a day after the 9th hour even when the men were out working during the fast doing physical labour. Many slept on floors. I have read accounts of how much they struggled compared to our times and I am moved and amazed. I think that it is inevitable that even Russian MP who love to play the traditionalist in World Orthodox circles, will eventually give up what is little more than a political posturing charade. They are no better than the New Calendarist Greeks. Both camps have their conscientious traditionally minded who are struggling quite hard to live a pious life, but are surrounded by rank and file in parish life who are weak and lazy. (May God save us all, that we do our duty and show real care and zeal for our own souls as well as those around us.) My point is that I think Maria is essentially right, even though I agree, Jean-Serge, with what you have pointed out that the time is obviously not yet for the policy of overthrowing the rules on fasting completely and officially.