Seeking for the Truth vs. Instability in the Faith

[Maria]

In seeking the True Faith, laity are often lied to by clergy in order to get them into their particular church. Then after these laity join a particular jurisdiction or denomination, they begin to notice patterns of psychological control and deception often disguised as spiritual direction. When these laity express concern, clergy and pastors are quick to label these laity as being disobedient, unstable in the faith, and/or suffering from an underlying Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD).

Instability associated with changing Christian denominations
One of the World Orthodox hierarchs who is labeling converts as unstable is none other than Met. Joseph of the Antiochians. Several years ago, Met. Joseph wrote an article in the Antiochian Word Magazine where he was encouraging clergy to delay the acceptance of converts into their parishes, and to discern if these converts were showing any signs of instability by having left or fled one Protestant denomination for another. If this pattern were noticed among potential converts, then in consultation with their hierarchs, clergy were encouraged to lengthen the time of their inquiry and catechumenate.

Note that the Antiochians have another control commonly used to keep laity from changing jurisdictions and thus stem the bleeding of parishioners due to scandals, change of occupation or employment, or change of colleges as one progresses in the academic world. This control is called a canonical release. Canonical releases are only intended for clergy, but the Antiochians widely use them for controlling the movement of laity.

Instability and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
I have known several people who were truly unstable and who have been diagnosed as suffering with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). Within a matter of two weeks to two months, such people will change from Protestantism to Roman Catholicism to World Orthodoxy to Mormonism to Islam to Judaism to Buddhism or to other Eastern religions, and then they will repent and return to one of the flavors of Christianity. Then this sequence will be repeated. At each stage, these mentally ill individuals will experience an adrenaline rush as they try to encourage friends, relatives, and those on Internet forums to convert with them. On Internet forums, an individual suffering from OCD will often set up different accounts, one account for each faith.

[to be continued]

Please feel free to add comments.

[Handmaiden50]

In seeking the True Faith, laity are often lied to by clergy in order to get them into their particular church. Then after these laity join a particular jurisdiction or denomination, they begin to notice patterns of psychological control and deception often disguised as spiritual direction. When these laity express concern, clergy and pastors are quick to label these laity as being disobedient, unstable in the faith, and/or suffering from an underlying Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD).

Lied to? In what way, Maria?

See, this is why I appreciate those who bring out in the open things that are going on behind the scenes or "true motives" of World Orthodox churches and/or clergy. Thank you, Maria. To be honest, as an inquirer I don't feel I've come to the point yet to say I want to be a catechumen in a particular Orthodox church, but then when I hear stuff like this to be honest it just makes me want to throw up my hands and give up (which is what I know the enemy would want . . .but I'm NOT going to).

[Maria]

In seeking the True Faith, laity are often lied to by clergy in order to get them into their particular church. Then after these laity join a particular jurisdiction or denomination, they begin to notice patterns of psychological control and deception often disguised as spiritual direction. When these laity express concern, clergy and pastors are quick to label these laity as being disobedient, unstable in the faith, and/or suffering from an underlying Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD).

Lied to? In what way, Maria?

See, this is why I appreciate those who bring out in the open things that are going on behind the scenes or "true motives" of World Orthodox churches and/or clergy. Thank you, Maria. To be honest, as an inquirer I don't feel I've come to the point yet to say I want to be a catechumen in a particular Orthodox church, but then when I hear stuff like this to be honest it just makes me want to throw up my hands and give up (which is what I know the enemy would want . . .but I'm NOT going to).

The Antiochian Church told us that the Old Calendarists were schismatic, heretical, and evil just because these folks do not like Ecumenism and the New Calendar, which is a fruit of the pan-heresy of Ecumenism.

Yet, when my husband and I were with the Antiochians, we were also told that the Melkite Catholics were also heretical and in schism, but that the Antiochians hoped to be in union with Rome soon, so some Melkites in Syria and in the Middle East are allowed communion in Antiochian parishes. Intercommunion has also been permitted in the USA, when Melkites live at a considerable distance from their Melkite parish. However, there are Holy Canons of the Orthodox Church that prohibit prayers and sharing sacraments with heretics. If this is the case, then the Antiochians are uncanonical.

Not only are the Antiochians giving communion to Roman Catholics, but also they are communing those in the Oriental Christian Churches and having prayer services with them. This is also in violation of our Holy Canons, and is another proof that the Antiochians are uncanonical.

Yet, these Antiochians accuse the True Orthodox of being uncanonical for simply following the Old Calendar when the New Papal Calendar was condemned by three Orthodox Councils.

As I have said before, the Antiochians are the only ones who insist upon a giving a written canonical release whenever a member of the laity needs to change parishes, either to another Antiochian parish or to one of the other World Orthodox jurisdictions, like OCA, GOARCH, Serbians, Ukrainians, Russians (MP or ROCOR), etc. This is an example of control. There are no canons in the Holy Orthodox Church that specify that laity need to be given a release. Only clergy need to be given a release to serve at another parish.

[Agios_Irineos]

As I have said before, the Antiochians are the only ones who insist upon a giving a written canonical release whenever a member of the laity needs to change parishes, either to another Antiochian parish or to one of the other World Orthodox jurisdictions, like OCA, GOARCH, Serbians, Ukrainians, Russians (MP or ROCOR), etc. This is an example of control. There are no canons in the Holy Orthodox Church that specify that laity need to be given a release. Only clergy need to be given a release to serve at another parish.

Maria -

When I was in an OCA mission before coming to True Orthodoxy, the local Antiochian priest was so controlling he wrote all of his parish members reminding them that they could not even visit our mission without his blessing. Our priest had to confront him about such false representations of clerical authority over the laity. He also once pulled me aside after a liturgy (when we were not meeting) and harangued me over the fact that some members of his parish who had asked to be on our mailing list, were receiving e-mails from us! It was shameful and one of the things that motivated me to move away from the world orthodox jurisdictions after our mission closed.

[Maria]

As I have said before, the Antiochians are the only ones who insist upon a giving a written canonical release whenever a member of the laity needs to change parishes, either to another Antiochian parish or to one of the other World Orthodox jurisdictions, like OCA, GOARCH, Serbians, Ukrainians, Russians (MP or ROCOR), etc. This is an example of control. There are no canons in the Holy Orthodox Church that specify that laity need to be given a release. Only clergy need to be given a release to serve at another parish.

Maria -

When I was in an OCA mission before coming to True Orthodoxy, the local Antiochian priest was so controlling he wrote all of his parish members reminding them that they could not even visit our mission without his blessing. Our priest had to confront him about such false representations of clerical authority over the laity. He also once pulled me aside after a liturgy (when we were not meeting) and harangued me over the fact that some members of his parish who had asked to be on our mailing list, were receiving e-mails from us! It was shameful and one of the things that motivated me to move away from the world orthodox jurisdictions after our mission closed.

Indeed, the Antiochians would be so bold as to label you and others as a "sheep stealer." Yet, they have missions too and many of those are pan-orthodox.

But the lies are put forth by the New Calendarists, including those in the Greek and Antiochian churches that the True Orthodox are schismatics, heretics, and uncanonical, when they themselves are uncanonical and schismatic for having unilaterally imposed this New Calendar.

[Isaakos]

I agree Maria. The New Calendarists have their bag of psychological control methods. Many points they make are legitimate in themselves, but they misapply them. For example:

1. You are being unstable...

Said the New Calendar Priest who was raised Catholic, became a protestant, returned to Catholicism and then became Orthodox. Instability in people does exist, but it is typically characterized by an unwillingness to settle down because of issues of a personal nature, or seeking to be controlled in an authoritarian or super strict way, or conversely, seeking to be free from all control. Also, leaving over little things like "their icons are too westernized." Or "the singing isn't good." Or, "they don't have any after church activities for me." These are all characteristics of instability, because the individual is not primarily after the truth of the faith, but on a quest for super-correctness, either liturgical, canonical, iconographic or spiritual.

Now, there are priests who know these characteristics, but apply them to every single person who chooses to leave their parish or jurisdiction/church. My New Calendarist priest told me I suffered from this when I abandoned his church.

But it wasn't true, because I didn't leave because he had his flaws, I did not leave because the icons were super western (they were too), I didn't leave because we had pews, or because there was a falling out with a parishioner, or any other such nonsensical reason. His personal spiritual direction was sober, mature and grounded. There was nothing wrong there. No overuse of strictness, and at the same time not letting you off too easy in confession either. None of this was an issue! I left for one reason:

I will not commune with schismatic Ecumenists. They are heretics. I want to be within the true church of Christ and I will not tolerate communing with or praying with either schismatics or heretics, because Christ himself has said that such people will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. He hates their heresies.

"But you have this in your favor, you hate the works of the Nocolaitans, which I also hate."

Who among us would dare to abide in God-hated schism and heresy?

Is the refusal to abide in such "instability?" Is it "jurisdiction hopping?" Is it the sign of "malignant spiritual sickness?"

No.

It is a sign of trying to be spiritually sensitive to what God hates and avoiding it. If the New Calendarists can't accept it, so be it. If other schismatic "true" Orthodox don't accept it, so be it.

"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

[Barbara]

Good for you< Philaret, for expressing this well about being spiritually sensitive to what God wants and avoiding what
God dislikes !

But it is true that there is this jumping around, as was said above, from Protestant to Catholic to Charismatic to Evangelical to Orthodox to who knows what. Has this always been the case ? Or it's a function of the uncertain modern times ?

Also, I don't understand why the Antiochians would characterize a person who jumps around as having OCD.
That's more characterized by a need to have everything extraordinarily clean, such as washing hands 100 times,
or checking over and over to see whether a door is locked. How does this relate to selection of jurisdiction or religion.

I didn't realize that some people go that route of all the major world religions. And then repeat it in a cycle !
I didn't understand, too, though, why that would give an adrenline rush to someone to advocate for fellow forum members to convert to his or her religion of the moment. That sounds like a very insecure person if his self-image is based merely on his ability to persuade others to join his religion of the moment.

That is amazing about the separate accounts, too, one for each religion !