Medjugorje: Great article to share with Roman Catholics

[Maria]

This is the best article on Fatima written from an Orthodox perspective that I have ever seen.

http://www.orthodox.org/Fatima.pdf

[Barbara]

Maria,

I politely disagree.
No Catholic will read past the first couple pages at most.
A Catholic would HAVE to already KNOW Orthodox doctrine to be able to comprehend or believe the
perspective presented here.

Also there are inaccuracies.
From where did the later part of this quotation arrive ?
It is nowhere in the Fatima literature. Sounds made up as it is barely grammatical.

"It [the Apparition] said, “To all those
who embrace (devotion to my Immaculate
Heart), I promise salvation
and their souls will be loved
by God as flowers placed by the
way that will lead you to God.”

There is almost no chance that a Catholic would agree with the points in the article.
It is probably better to not argue, especially if the Catholic is a family member.
As this would be TOO contrary for any Catholic to accept, creating discord which
won't get resolved in any healthy way.
In my estimation, fighting about this topic could lead to relatives or friends not speaking ever again.
Is that worth it ? It's up to each one of us to assess before introducing such an inflammatory topic to those who
were brought up from childhood believing implicitly in Fatima.

One has also to be ready for the obvious objection that this article doesn't even get near [as far as I saw
reading it quickly] discussing the October 13 Miracle of the Sun, which Portugal's newspapers reported
in awe, even the many atheist journals were astounded. Nothing appeared in the American press.
But for centuries, that press has been strictly controlled.
This is what Catholic proponents of Fatima will argue. One must be completely prepared to field
this point.

[Maria]

Perhaps I can let xenondrum explain what he thought about it.

As former Roman Catholics who had a lively devotion to Fatima and who attended some of Fr. Nicholas Gruner's Masses, we found this article to be very well written. There was another article, highly praised by some in True Orthodoxy, that was very derogatory and used the term "papist" throughout. That term is sure to alienate Roman Catholics immediately.

However, this article not only rightfully questioned the Medjugorje apparitions, which started on the 40th anniversary of the genocide and martyrdom of Serbian Orthodox, but also questioned the rash of apparitions just in time to promote the new Roman Catholic dogmas of Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, and the devotions to the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

The British writer, Michael Davis, a devout Roman Catholic who questioned the Medjugorje apparitions, went there to produce a documentary about these so-called apparitions on demand, but he was detained and delayed by the Franciscans. He wrote that the Medjugorje apparition was a ghost because initial accounts given by the children described a ghostly image clothed in gray colors. He also questioned these apparitions which the children could produce upon demand, and which enabled them to live a rather lavish lifestyle with new homes, cars, and the financial means to travel the world, while they ignored their bishop's proscriptions.

Researching further, I discovered that these very Franciscans who were guiding these children in Medjugorje did not have a very clean record, as the diocesan bishop had censored them repeatedly. Years before during the Nazi regime, that Franciscan community was involved in the Serbian genocide, where many Serbian Orthodox, brought by freight car, were tossed down to their death from the cliff at Medjugorje, the very site of the apparition.

[Maria]

Here is the link to the writings of Michael Davies concerning Medjugorje.
Medjugorje: A Warning -- http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/medjugorje.htm

This is an excellent article on Medjugorje that is easier on the eyes: http://www.rosesfromheaven.com/medjugorje.html

Excerpt:

• I feel obliged to alert our readers about the most widely known of the false apparitions in the world today. My aim is not to anger, insult or impugn the sincerity or the motives of those who genuinely believe in them. My goal is only to bring forward the truth, however unpopular that might be.

  Medjugorje is a sordid tale about manipulation, lies, intrigue, deception, false doctrine, money scams, scandals and a lot of dupped people--the whole 26 million of them who visited Medjugorje in search of a genuine spiritual experience but sadly only finding the stones of false doctrine to nourish their starving souls.

Here are more links:
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.c ... -hoax.html

Note: Most RC websites promote Medjugorje with people saying that Medjugorje played a big role in their conversion to Catholicism. That should raise a red flag as Fatima, Lourdes, and Medjugorje have played huge roles in conversions and revivals.
Yet, Rome has detoured far from the faith especially since the 1960's with the Novus Ordo (Latin for New Order), the changes made in all the RCC's Services and Sacraments, laity distributing communion, the use of gender neutral language in the Holy Bible, and the continual revolution going on in the Mass with liturgical dancers, clowns, etc.

View this recent video of a "Catholic Mass" - note: turn your speakers down.

[Barbara]

Is xenondrum not here any longer, then >?

Good remarks he made.

I didn't know that Michael Davies is English. Good for him for exposing Medjugorje, the cheesiest fraud in ages.
I'll have to look up those links for more detailed vilifications !

I think as a rule there is NO emphasis on discernment taught to Catholics of this era. Few are even well versed in
how to fight the attacks of the evil one. Many don't even KNOW of the existence of the Devil, sadly.
So maybe this is why so many are falling for scams like Medjugorje. That grey robe was the first thing I noticed, too, when this story began to circulate widely. I never thought of a ghost as the explanation. The whole thing is impossibly strange.
I saw one Catholic site which politely mocked the visionaries with a tally of each teen and how many "secrets" they had received and when they would - if any - receive future "visions". A couple of the "visionaries" maintained that they would receive a vision of "the Queen of Peace" on their birthdays.
Notice ! Not their namesday, even. But their birthday. Sounds bogus to me !

By the way, the minute one sees any reference to Queen of Peace, it tells us to stay far away : these people / book / organization believe in this false apparition. They must be either childlike in their superficial understanding of the spiritual life or in severe delusion. I am writing this part, which is obvious to all our usual readers here, in case some Catholic looks up Medjugorje on the internet and finds a link to this thread.

A college friend of mine told me her Rosary had turned to gold on the plane back from Medjugorje. I sent her articles exposing Medjugorje, but they made no dent. However, some people WILL listen and break free from this state of prelest, God willing.

[Maria]

Is xenondrum not here any longer, then >?

Good remarks he made.

I didn't know that Michael Davies is English. Good for him for exposing Medjugorje, the cheesiest fraud in ages.
I'll have to look up those links for more detailed vilifications !

I think as a rule there is NO emphasis on discernment taught to Catholics of this era. Few are even well versed in
how to fight the attacks of the evil one. Many don't even KNOW of the existence of the Devil, sadly.
So maybe this is why so many are falling for scams like Medjugorje. That grey robe was the first thing I noticed, too, when this story began to circulate widely. I never thought of a ghost as the explanation. The whole thing is impossibly strange.
I saw one Catholic site which politely mocked the visionaries with a tally of each teen and how many "secrets" they had received and when they would - if any - receive future "visions". A couple of the "visionaries" maintained that they would receive a vision of "the Queen of Peace" on their birthdays.
Notice ! Not their namesday, even. But their birthday. Sounds bogus to me !

By the way, the minute one sees any reference to Queen of Peace, it tells us to stay far away : these people / book / organization believe in this false apparition. They must be either childlike in their superficial understanding of the spiritual life or in severe delusion. I am writing this part, which is obvious to all our usual readers here, in case some Catholic looks up Medjugorje on the internet and finds a link to this thread.

A college friend of mine told me her Rosary had turned to gold on the plane back from Medjugorje. I sent her articles exposing Medjugorje, but they made no dent. However, some people WILL listen and break free from this state of prelest, God willing.

I have heard a lot about these golden rosaries and Catholics in search of miracles too.

When I was a Catholic, I had a spiritual father who forbade me to go on any pilgrimages or to attend any functions concerning Medjugorje. Those who had devotions to Medjugorje became very upset and told me to drop that Catholic priest. After I read Michael Davies and an article that discussed these visions on demand, I was more convinced that this was a huge deception spawned by the Devil himself. One of the seers even had a child out of wedlock. Of course, those who promote Medjugorje deny that. However, the local Bishop also disciplined those Franciscans ... the very Franciscans who had kidnapped Michael Davies ... and whose own spiritual forefathers had killed so many Serbian Orthodox Christians. How can this be good?

[Archimandrit Nilos]

I am strictly against these false "apparations" as Fatima and Medjugorje. They are in no way interesting for the Orthodox faithful.