My Russian Orthodox dilemma

[сынок]

Thank you for this forum; hopefully, it will help make the smoke clear.
My problem of the past 2 years has become 'overly passionate' for me so, I'll make my note in point form to prevent myself from 'cutting loose'!

• born in the west into a WW2 DP Russian family

• baptized in ROC (at that time ROCA)

• left church as a teenager -it was the 60's - I didn't know any better

• last parent reposed in the Lord 2011

• unavoidable/unexplainable urge overtook me try to recover my RO roots.

• on mother's repose, we had a ROCOR funeral. It was performed within my baptismal church BUT, I knew nothing about it's changing names from ROCA to ROCOR or, this joining to the MP

• I carried on attending a ROCOR church regularly for 1.5 years, taking communion and, even joined the parish with membership.

• eventually began discovering information about the 'splits' and 'unions' ... better late than never - I guess?

• I was furious with myself for putting money on the plate, paying membership and mostly, taking communion from a church now tied to a once (?) communist state.

• my parents hated communism and, stupid me, was having Panykhidas done for them in a MP church environment. They were probably rolling in their graves

• once my 'library' of Russian Orthodoxy began to grow and my curiosity aroused, I became more than upset

• I was searching to JOIN a Russian Orthodox Church that was of the kind my 'royalist' Russian parents, grandparents and rest of my bloodline had been part of pre-bolshevik revolution

• my grandfather was taken away from my mother by bolsheviks and never heard from again

So, to keep it short, I think you can see where I'm going with this. I am SO confused about what group would represent the Russian Orthodox Church of my family in Tsarist Russian times. They ALL say they do. There doesn't seem to be any post 2007 information on these groups who've not joined MP. What I've managed to find is miniscule.
Right now, I am leaning towards ROCA or ROAC.

Are there any accurate and current information sources out there for me to grasp so I can stop floundering and JOIN an active Russian Orthodox community?

In Christ,
сынок

[Jean-Serge]

I am surprised that it took you in 1.5 years you did not notice the Patriarch of Moscow was commemorated in all services!! The only consideration that you raise are political one, about who is monarchist, who is communist etc But the church is no about this. The question should be, who has an orthodox faith and after this, who is canonical. The question of nationality of the church is also entirely secundary regarding faith and canonicity.

[сынок]

I am surprised that it took you in 1.5 years you did not notice the Patriarch of Moscow was commemorated in all services!! The only consideration that you raise are political one, about who is monarchist, who is communist etc But the church is no about this. The question should be, who has an orthodox faith and after this, who is canonical. The question of nationality of the church is also entirely secundary regarding faith and canonicity.

1.5 years of attending before I started discovering the facts about the past. I was content until some things were said every now and then (during sermons after liturgy) which triggered my curiosity. As far as your last sentence regarding nationality of the church I will say "maybe to you, it is secondary"...
Thanks for your response anyway.

[Maria]

Thank you for this forum; hopefully, it will help make the smoke clear.
My problem of the past 2 years has become 'overly passionate' for me so, I'll make my note in point form to prevent myself from 'cutting loose'!

• born in the west into a WW2 DP Russian family

• baptized in ROC (at that time ROCA)

• left church as a teenager -it was the 60's - I didn't know any better

• last parent reposed in the Lord 2011

• unavoidable/unexplainable urge overtook me try to recover my RO roots.

• on mother's repose, we had a ROCOR funeral. It was performed within my baptismal church BUT, I knew nothing about it's changing names from ROCA to ROCOR or, this joining to the MP

• I carried on attending a ROCOR church regularly for 1.5 years, taking communion and, even joined the parish with membership.

• eventually began discovering information about the 'splits' and 'unions' ... better late than never - I guess?

• I was furious with myself for putting money on the plate, paying membership and mostly, taking communion from a church now tied to a once (?) communist state.

• my parents hated communism and, stupid me, was having Panykhidas done for them in a MP church environment. They were probably rolling in their graves

• once my 'library' of Russian Orthodoxy began to grow and my curiosity aroused, I became more than upset

• I was searching to JOIN a Russian Orthodox Church that was of the kind my 'royalist' Russian parents, grandparents and rest of my bloodline had been part of pre-bolshevik revolution

• my grandfather was taken away from my mother by bolsheviks and never heard from again

So, to keep it short, I think you can see where I'm going with this. I am SO confused about what group would represent the Russian Orthodox Church of my family in Tsarist Russian times. They ALL say they do. There doesn't seem to be any post 2007 information on these groups who've not joined MP. What I've managed to find is miniscule.
Right now, I am leaning towards ROCA or ROAC.

Are there any accurate and current information sources out there for me to grasp so I can stop floundering and JOIN an active Russian Orthodox community?

In Christ,
сынок

Welcome to E Cafe сынок!

I think you will find a lot of folks in True Orthodoxy who are anti-Communist. After all, wasn't it the Communists who actively persecuted Orthdoox Christians and brutally executed millions of Orthodox faithful, including bishops, priests, deacons, monastics, faithful, and even the royal family? When we look at the current MP, there are serious questions, among them: Why was a Stalinist calendar published by the MP press?

Look into the ROAC, RTOC, and ROCA.

If you do not already have access to the Intra-TOC Polemics forum, please PM Dr. Jonathan Gress (jgress). There you can read about the different jurisdictions and ask questions about their differences.

[Barbara]

Maria means : RTOC.

I understand where you are coming from, I think. I don't blame you in the slightest for
wanting to find a jurisdiction which reflects your "roots" [for lack of a better word].
That makes complete good sense, in my opinion.

Maybe you didn't notice the commemoration of "Patriarch Kirill" because you had been away
from church for awhile and forgot how that works. First the top hierarch [before always
the First Hierarch of Rocor, now a stranger...], then the Archbishop of the Diocese, then
the Vicar Bishop, if any.

Since you were not there earlier, the sudden glaring introduction of "Patriarch Kirill" into this
usual list would not have caught your attention. I noticed it immediately in late May 2007, because it was grating and awful to hear. Like fingernails on a chalkboard...
As you know, the entire raison d'etre of Rocor was always to oppose the evil Communists and their lackeys in their pseudo-church, the Moscow Patriarchate after 1943. Then to be suddenly squashed under these same characters was rubbed in
every time Patriarch Kirill's name was commemorated.

It's therefore good that you are alive to this terrible problem. Many were not: they went along passively in the
subjugation of the MP's old nemesis. You are to be commended for being awake to
the preposterous nature of that takeover of Rocor by the MP.

You are leaning toward ROAC or the Metropolitan Agafangel jurisdiction which calls itself ROCA ?
Maybe this should be continued in the Intra-TOC Polemic thread before I voice any recommendation --

Welcome here, you sound like the kind of person who would fit right in. We will try to find a home for you,
never fear!

Barbara

[searn77]

Greetings!

First things first, I would check out the site trueorthodoxdirectory.us to find the closest church to you. There you'll be able to see the different Russian synods that have a presence in America. And if you click the little church icons next to the synods names you'll be taken to the synod's website. Just a heads up, ROCA-A doesn't update their American website as much as they do their Russian version so I'd recommend going to this website & using Google translate if you don't speak Russian:
http://sinod.ruschurchabroad.org/index.htm

I know Fr. Mark Templet of ROAC sometimes posts here. If memory serves me correct, he's an American convert and he runs the ROAC American website. He was also a guest on one of the NFTU radio shows a year or two ago. His email address is on the ROAC website if you want to get in touch with him. Having heard him on the NFTU show he seems like he'd be very approachable & probably knowledgeable on ROAC since he chose to join that synod.

I don't think there are any ROCA-A clergy on this website but I remember seeing a layperson or two from that synod who posted here.

Also here are a couple of things written by Vladimir Moss that may be of some use to you. I haven't read them myself but I do plan on reading them soon:
The Battle for the Russian Orthodox Church
http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/b ... ook_id=413
A History of the Fall of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, 2000-2007
http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/b ... ook_id=314

My prayers are with you in your search for joining the Church! The only advice I could give is that I would stress being concerned primarily with uniting to Christ through His Church, which doesn't necessarily have to be ROAC or ROCA-A (not that I have anything against either of these two synods as they are both TOC synods). The Church is Catholic & encompasses people of many different nationalities, not just one (I'm not saying you believe that the Church only encompasses one nationality by the way). My own synod is an American synod but it's in communion with a Russian catacomb synod, a Greek synod, & altogether we have parishes around the world. I know other synods have churches throughout the world as well. It's comforting to know that to be in the True Orthodox Church I'm in communion with all the saints of old, including the saints of Russia martyred by the communists, the saints of Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, etc. Even though the Church today has many administrative issues & is being attacked by heresies such as Ecumenism, the Church is still one.

Please pray for me a sinner.
I'll be sure to keep you in my prayers as well.
And welcome to the forum!

[Jean-Serge]

As far as your last sentence regarding nationality of the church I will say "maybe to you, it is secondary"...
Thanks for your response anyway.

The church is territorial and has no nationality. In a normal world, you would find no Church of Russia in Egypt because it is the church of Alexandria there and so on. Some churches entirely disappeared due to heresy, invasion etc. That is why the first point is to look where is the true faith confessed.