Excellent Critique of Anti-Jewish Sentiments and Claims

[arcmode]

How can Christianity be based on anything? It is truth, the only base.

I regret my post, I should not have said anyone is my enemy. I just think that we should not be at peace with those who attack the Church and I consider some of the statements in the article an attack on the Church. I don't think it is a deliberate attack, because I don't know if it is a deliberate attack, and I'm not trying to start a fight with any person or any group over it, I just want to disagree. If I am wrong, I would like to know. To me, words like Judeo-christian and claims that Christianity is based on Judaism or when people say Jesus was a Jew - it just doesn't make sense to me. I have even heard Jewish people express surprise at the way heterodox attach themselves to Israel and the Jewish faith because they are nothing like each other. For that reason I consider the articles disinformation because they mix truth with falsehood, just like the anti-semites who write and speak for political purposes do.

Just because I'm not on WND' s side doesn't mean I'm on David Dukes side. They both say things that are true mixed in with things that are false, so they should both be avoided. I'm not trying to understand these things for a political purpose, but it's hard for people who do consider these purely political questions to understand that. Symeon, you said: Choose a side. No, I wont choose a side. They are all wrong, like me and every one else.

It's not so much a search for 'truth,' like trying to figure out which faction or group or secret society or whatever is 'really in control,' that's not a realistic aim. The people in control (although it's God who is really in control,) if they exist, somehow calling the shots from wherever they are, are never going to be named and may not even bother calling themselves anything, they would be to smart for that. And anyway, if there is a conspiracy, who is not involved? Are we not all sinners? So any time we do evil we contribute to what is, in the end, one big conspiracy to deceive as many souls as possible into taking bad for good. Even if the conspiracy turned out to be entirely arranged by a small group of say, Martians, it could not succeed without the collaboration of millions of humans, so I reject the notion of blaming a group, race or whatever. Even I don't have the energy and free time to construct a 'gentile/whitepower/vast right wing/kgb//muslim/alien?/jewish/eskimo/etc. etc. conspiracy theory.'

What I'm interested in is finding out the lie. What is it we believe, or think is true, that isn't. That's the scientific method. We all work from a theory that needs to be tested against observation. When observations contradict theory, theory is revised. That's why I'm not saying this race or that group is doing this or that, I'm saying the people who produce the media, including the alternative media, whether they know it or not, are inevitably advancing one theory or another as if it is a final truth. Heterodox Christians seem to think their theory on anti-semetism is a part of the Christian faith. I say it isn't, and that doesn't automatically mean I accept the ideas or theories of anyone else. Every person is free to use or modify or reject, any and all theories and models of our current reality and history as they test those theories and models against observation of the real world. It's just being allowed to think.

WND, David Duke, Nation of Islam - they all have an agenda that I'm not interested in advancing, and the advancement of that agenda is even built into the reactions of those who disagree with those who disagree. That's why I'm not saying any more about it. I'm not smart enough to express myself without getting into some kind of trouble with someone because in some technical, gnat straining way, it could be taken for inciting violence. And I'm not referring to you, Lydia, or Symeon, when I say that, I just forget sometimes that we have vilification laws that I should probably look into before using certain words and making certain statements online.

If you can show me where I have said any untruth I would appreciate it. I will go back through my posts and check for myself as well, but I may be working from bad information without realising it so maybe you have better info or something.

Time for a break from the Cafe. Goodnight

[Matthew]

I think that if we draw a distinction between the different kinds of Judaism -- and believe me there are many different kinds, just listen to a Reformed Jewish Rabbi debate a Chabad Lubavitch Rabbi -- we can resolve this question of whether one can say if Christianity is based on Judaism or not.

If we are talking about any form of modern Judaism (all of the extant forms of Judaism are 1- products of and responses to modern history; and 2- based on the Talmud which is largely formed after Israel rejected Christ, and these two cases hold whether we are talking about ultra Orthodox Judaism or leftist/modernist) then I would say we can easily say that Apostolic Orthodox Christianity is NOT based on Judaism and that Christianity and all forms of present Modern Judaism are two different religions with very different basic religious assumptions and that they are not not based one upon the other, though perhaps some aspects of modern Judaism could be said to be in part a response to claims of Christianity that they reject. So if anything, perhaps it is not entirely unfair to say that while nothing in Orthodox Christianity is based upon or drawing from anything unique to Modern forms of Judaism, All existing Judaic Traditions do partly get their present form or some of their ideas as a response to rejecting the claims of Christ and the Church.

On the other hand, if we are talking about Judaism that is pre-Christian, not based on post-Christian Talmudic traditions, then we can say that Apostolic Christianity is, indeed, based upon Judaism and is the natural conclusion and outflow of True Abrahamic Judaism which has been fulfilled in Christ.

[joasia]

This term was created as a weapon against those who speak the truth of faith, Orthodoxy. It is purposefully done to show themselves as victims. Once that's established, in the media, people become afraid to say the truth which is: Jesus Christ is the Messiah that was promised Abraham and the prophets. He is the Saviour for all and the only way into God's Holy Kingdom. How can a person go into someone's house if he hates him, right? So, how can we get a chance to get into the Holy Kingdom if we don't believe in the One that is the way? Jesus Christ said: "He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth" (Luke: 11:23)

Now, as for these people who speak out against the Jews, they have no love in Christ. That's what makes their statements wrong. But, look at St. John Chrysostom. People came from all over, even the Jews, to hear his sermons. And his explanations were full of truth, no holds bar. But, he didn't speak in a way to raise violence. Lord forbid! He explained the truth of the teachings of the Old Testament and the fulfillment of it in the New Testament.

This doesn't mean, though, that we shouldn't understand what's going on in the world. The Lord instructed the Apostles: Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves; be ye therefore as wise as serpents, and as harmless as doves. (Matt. 10:16).

Those who, with love in Christ, should speak the truth by proclaiming the faith and showing the hope in Christ. Of course, logically, professing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Messiah will oppose all those who don't believe it and the most sensitive ones will be the Jews, for obvious reasons. But, when we approach it this way, we are just voicing our faith and certainly cannot be accused of attacking anyone. If need be, due to lack of theological studies, stick to the Creed. Some of us have more knowledge than others, so if we get stumped, just keep it simple, from your heart. First, be true to God, in your heart, which means do not let guile rise up due to the confrontation. Remind yourself that you are, daily, working for your salvation. This is our main concern. Let's not start thinking we can outwit someone in an argument because this just fuels our pride and we end up losing all face value of our faith.

I just think that we should not be at peace with those who attack the Church and I consider some of the statements in the article an attack on the Church.

The Church has been attacked since Her existence. Jesus Christ had already forewarned the Apostles. But, He also called us blessed for these sufferings. See the Beatitudes. Matt. 5. This is chanted at every Liturgy to remind us how we should understand these attacks. That's why it's so important to go to church as often as possible or at least every Sunday. Hearing these instructions, every week, sinks in our hearts and gives us a holy perspective. And if someone can't make it to church, regularly, he/she should read this everyday as Christ's instructions directly for us. I hope this helps you re-consider your view.

To me, words like Judeo-christian and claims that Christianity is based on Judaism or when people say Jesus was a Jew - it just doesn't make sense to me.

Jesus was born into the Jewish line of Judah. He observed all the laws, but being the Messiah, started to show them that the law of the letter is lower than the law of the spirit. He came for the Jews that were waiting for their Messiah. Those who were true to their faith, recognized Him. Those who were hypocrites, were blind by their lack of faith. The Apostles developed their form of worship, after the Resurrection, by what they already had. The Psalms were the biggest part and was kept in our Liturgical worship. For example, the Hours. Even the word, Alleluia, used in church, is an Hebrew word which means, Praise the Lord.

One day, when I was contemplating the transformation of the Jews to Christianity, I got the idea of a butterfly. The caterpillar starts on the ground (letter of the law). All it knows is the things of the earth. Then he goes into a stasis, cocoon (the time of the Apostles' learning – their development of the full faith). And emerges with glorious wings and knows how to fly in the air (letter of the spirit). It is no longer bound to the ground. It has become the fulfillment of the potential that was always within it. This is the transformation of the true Jews who come to worship Jesus Christ as the Messiah. It's still the same worshippers of the Messiah, but fulfilled. That's also when I realized that God was showing me His Almighty Wisdom in His creation. Every natural creation is a testament to His teachings. This analogy is also good in explaining our spiritual ascent (theosis). Some are still in a cocoon stage (developing and learning), while other others are still crawling on the ground. The saints have reached the butterfly stage.

What I'm interested in is finding out the lie. What is it we believe, or think is true, that isn't.

If you know what is true, then you will recognize the lie. If you try to test whether something is a lie, first, then you will get confused. Just turn to the Holy Scriptures and saints' writings which we know are absolute truth. It really doesn't matter what theory is true or half truth. What we do know is that this world is not our home. We have a greater place to go and all this is left behind. The truth is, when we die, we will have to face our judgement, by Jesus Christ and He will not be commending us for exposing or recognizing the lies of this world. He will be judging us according to how close or far we are in likeness to Him. And if we focus on trying to learn the truth of this world, we are wasting precious time. He gave us another instruction which is clear: Repent, for the Kingdom of the Heavens has drawn near. (Matt. 4:17).

[Matthew]

Very good and balanced points on this topic, Joanna. Lord help us to be able to wisely address this issue in a Godly and loving way.

Symeon

[arcmode]

I think I go on too much to say very little.

Symeon, it seems you agree with me. As the articles contain this untruth, they are confirmed as disinformation. WND is disinformation.

I have been reading this excellent book about the hidden manipulators, who he simply calls psychopaths, or the 'pathocracy.'

http://www.newworldwar.org/tyranny.htm#NWW

He doesn't bother identifying groups, factions or races, recognizing that the bad guys are made up of all types of people, wearing various masks. I like this approach. I am interested in the more religious, spiritual side of the question, but this forum may not be the place to discuss it.

He will be judging us according to how close or far we are in likeness to Him. And if we focus on trying to learn the truth of this world, we are wasting precious time. He gave us another instruction which is clear: Repent, for the Kingdom of the Heavens has drawn near. (Matt. 4:17).

Why doesn't this apply to every subject on the forum? There wouldn't be many posts left if it did.

Every one who can speak the truth and yet speaks it not shall be judged by God. - Saint Justin Martyr

It is better that scandals arise than the truth be suppressed. - St. Gregory the Great

[arcmode]

Maybe I shouldn't say bad guys. I feel like the bad guy. I am the bad guy.

[arcmode]

This book I linked to, I can't tell if it's just too far.

It makes me nervous. I wonder, with this level of surveillance, why they don't just prevent him from publishing it?

If they command entire systems, just deny access to isps, and no one will ever know. Also the material appears in Nexus, which I used to read but it is very New Age stuff. More and more New Age ideas are mixing in with 'truther' and even what is called anti-semitic people and groups are starting to push more and more the idea of 'consciousness raising' and a kind of evolutionary acceleration by political/social awakening but anti-Christian in essence.

Sometimes I really miss the days before internet.

It's an overload sometimes, and it changes all the time and I don't really get how it can work, sometimes.

Especially when you put something back into it before you can really know how it might change and what that means. If anything XD