Cast YOUR Vote: Should Conspiracy be Banned from E-Cafe?

[silverbeam]

Of course, duh, sorry

[joasia]

Silverbeam,

First, it would be nice to address you by your Christian name. I don't think it's too much to ask that you sign it at the bottom.

...conduct independent investigations of crimes dispassionately.

You need to know what dispassion means first. Only the saints have reached the state of dispassion. The rest of us come into a subject matter with preconceived notions and emotions. Always. It's a culmination of everything we have experienced and held onto as part of our reaction to the world around us. And unless we put our hearts and souls into loving God with all our efforts, then we will still have one foot in the world. That's our struggle.

Your argument is similar to that used in world orthodoxy to discourage the faithful from looking into the calendar issue and other things.

One, you did not read my post with sincerity.

Two, this is not a subject about the calendar which I think is a subject that should be discussed in order to clarify to those who are seeking the truth that the ecumenists have fallen away from the straight path.

Three, I was not arguing, but wanting to point out that we are in Great Lent which is a highly sensitive spiritual time compared to the other lents and worldly topics can become a distracting focus which I have seen for the past few weeks. Great Lent is THE time for spiritual rejuvenation. I mean this in the sense that whatever we develop or lose, spiritually, is taken with us throughout the rest of the year. I read this explanation from the holy fathers and it gave me a better understanding of the holiness of this time. I don't know if you can understand my explanation, but maybe somebody else can say it better.

I watch the news. I've been on websites that write about all kinds of angles. I've known many things for years. I've discussed issues with my friends and family. But, at the end of the day, I am saying my prayers and directing the focus to God. I'm not saying that we shouldn't know about it. We should know what the enemy is doing. But, myself, I don't want to obsess about it because it takes away my focus on repentance. And, lately I've seen that worldly topics are the majority of posts here. Sure, I know about the evils in this world. Much more than you think I do. But, I've never posted about it because I didn't feel it was worth talking about. Even if we know who did what or whatever, it doesn't help us progress towards God. Only repentance does. Our Lord knows what's going on in the world better than we will ever figure out. He will deal with them. But, if we don't work on our own salvation to be healed from our corrupted state, then we have wasted precious time.

Joanna

[joasia]

Maria,

Again, if all discussions concerning conspiracy were to be banned, then people visiting our forums would say that we are hypocrites since we do allow discussions concerning some conspiracies but not others. They would certainly point their long fingers at our discussions concerning the conspiracies of World Orthodoxy as the Putin-MP forces seize the property of the True Orthodox. Banning all conspiracy theories would stop discussions concerning the Monsanto conspiracy to control all seed and animal reproduction, those concerning Putin, the KGB, and the MP, and other conspiracies about which we ought to know.

I disagree. Issues with World Orthodoxy is our concern. But, trying to figure out dates and times and the angle of tear or wrists is wasting precious spiritual focus for our salvation.

Telling people to look at their own sinfulness and avoid looking at the history of the candidates for whom we should vote is wrong. Did Christ tell us to be politically indifferent?

Actually, He said: Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. (Matt. 4:17). His focus was on our salvation.

No. Christ our Lord said to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God, the things that are God's

Your quote is out of context. He was explaining something to the Pharisees because they tried to corner Him. They wanted Him to choose one or the other. But, He knew what they were doing. So Christ revealed their hypocrisy. They were in the Temple area, beyond the gate of entrance. And the money changers, outside the gate, were there to exchange Roman coins for Temple coins because it was forbidden to enter the Temple with Roman coins. So when the Pharisees tried to trap Him, with their question, He exposed them. He said: Show me the coin. And a Pharisee gave Him a Roman coin. Christ knew that the Pharisee had a Roman coin in his pocket. And Christ said: render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God, the things that are God's.

The Pharisee showed that he had a Roman coin, in his pocket, within the Temple wall. The Pharisee defied the law of the Temple. These Pharisees were the absolute law of justice to the Jews. Jesus Christ, in another passage, accused them of putting so much strain on the Jewish people for all the laws they had to fulfil. Imagine the reaction of the simple men who were around them. A Pharisee had a Roman coin in his pocket within the Temple. The Pharisee exposed himself as a hypocrite to the law of their faith. THIS is the meaning of that passage.

As citizens, we have the right and the obligation to vote, and this implies that we should be informed citizens, not those who bury their heads in the sand.

We are first and foremost the citizens of God's Holy Kingdom. As far as our governments go...our votes don't mean anything. They will do what they want. This is one of the things that I mentioned that I know about. Being voters and feeling like we have a say in something of our country is a complete delusion. They let us feel that we have a say, but we really don't.

Joanna

[joasia]

As for free speech on this forum...I am a "yes". I never denied free speech. But, I guess my attempt to bring a focus back to spiritual talks has been vetoed. I just believe that it doesn't do any better for our souls. Repentance is the key.

[silverbeam]

Thanks Joanna,

I was tempted to reply to your 'out of line' post, but I've been experimenting with patience, and its paying off. I cant figure out how to use the quote function, so I just pasted your post addressed to me into a text editor and Ill put these little guys: --- --- --- between your words and mine, then paste it back in.

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Silverbeam,

First, it would be nice to address you by your Christian name. I don't think it's too much to ask that you sign it at the bottom.

---

Then ask The answer will be no.

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'...conduct independent investigations of crimes dispassionately.'

You need to know what dispassion means first. Only the saints have reached the state of dispassion. The rest of us come into a subject matter with preconceived notions and emotions. Always. It's a culmination of everything we have experienced and held onto as part of our reaction to the world around us. And unless we put our hearts and souls into loving God with all our efforts, then we will still have one foot in the world. That's our struggle.

---

The words dispassionately and dispassion are used differently by different people at different times in different contexts. I should have realized that you might think I meant it in the patristic, spiritual sense, but I did not.

From dictionary:

Dispassionately - in an impartially dispassionate manner; "although he was looking at the other girl, he did so dispassionately"

Dispassion - Freedom from passion, bias, or emotion; objectivity.

In other words, some people can be trusted in investigating crimes because they are not emotionaly invested in any particular outcome or conclusion. Cognitive disonance leading to passionate outbursts is the most common cause of forum chaos following conspiracy talk, witness my first post concerning Boston for an example. Certain types of employment can do the same.

We can strive and pray for objectivity in all things, it is a spiritual discipline.

---

Your argument is similar to that used in world orthodoxy to discourage the faithful from looking into the calendar issue and other things.

One, you did not read my post with sincerity.

---

Prove it.

---

Two, this is not a subject about the calendar which I think is a subject that should be discussed in order to clarify to those who are seeking the truth that the ecumenists have fallen away from the straight path.

---

I never compared the subjects, only the method of derailment.

---

Three, I was not arguing, but wanting to point out that we are in Great Lent which is a highly sensitive spiritual time compared to the other lents and worldly topics can become a distracting focus which I have seen for the past few weeks. Great Lent is THE time for spiritual rejuvenation. I mean this in the sense that whatever we develop or lose, spiritually, is taken with us throughout the rest of the year. I read this explanation from the holy fathers and it gave me a better understanding of the holiness of this time. I don't know if you can understand my explanation, but maybe somebody else can say it better.

---

You were arguing against conspiracy talk in favor of Lenten focus, as in:

Argument - A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.

I take this discussion as a part of my Lenten focus. You are free to focus your energies as you choose, or to attempt to direct others. Whether or not the small percentage of my day spent in investigating crime is a waste of time is not for you to judge. Research into all manner of subjects is how I spend much of my time, and it is no sin. Lord have mercy.

---

I watch the news. I've been on websites that write about all kinds of angles. I've known many things for years. I've discussed issues with my friends and family. But, at the end of the day, I am saying my prayers and directing the focus to God. I'm not saying that we shouldn't know about it. We should know what the enemy is doing.

---

Good, I agree.

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But, myself, I don't want to obsess about it because it takes away my focus on repentance.

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Then don't.

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And, lately I've seen that worldly topics are the majority of posts here. Sure, I know about the evils in this world. Much more than you think I do.

---

I have never thought about it even once in my life.

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But, I've never posted about it because I didn't feel it was worth talking about.

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And this post?

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Even if we know who did what or whatever, it doesn't help us progress towards God.

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I strongly disagree.

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Only repentance does.

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Again, I strongly disagree. Confession of faith? Feeding the poor? I could go on. It's not alll about sin, but virtue as well. Telling the truth is the work of God. For Golden freedom!

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Our Lord knows what's going on in the world better than we will ever figure out. He will deal with them.

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And those who can help, but fail to, or collaborate.

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But, if we don't work on our own salvation to be healed from our corrupted state, then we have wasted precious time.

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Everything we do can be work towards salvation, including healing our corrupted mental conditioning, and that of others.

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Hope that all makes sense and we can be friends

By the way, what you said about Jesus and the coin is very beautiful and I am very glad to read such things, thank you and thank God for you.

[silverbeam]

Joanna,

regarding my reply to you, where I said:

---

But, I've never posted about it because I didn't feel it was worth talking about.

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And this post?

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I take that back, I didn't think it through, forgive me.

[Barbara]

That was funny, silverbeam : "I have not thought about it once in my life" -
He is a good addition !
He doesn't need to give his name. Unless or until he feels comfortable here.

Looking back there are tons of usernames like "Orthodoxy or Death" or STATEMENTS like this, rather than a Christian name.
Some people - like Symeon - DO sign it at the end of their posts. Others don't.

Silverbeam seems very sharp. We NEED this kind of member !
We need good arguing capability to defend against World Orthodox onslaughts.

Some of us are "too nice" to do a very good job of that. Or; would bumble around.
He seems sharp as a tack ; I like the arguments he has advanced.

Maria's are excellent, too, for example the "OCA Tithing Scam".
We NEED to be ALERT to all such hoaxes, scams, phony news, etc.

I am glad, though, that the thread in question was moved to Private Forum. That is wise.

Finally let me say this. If I were an inquirer right now, and came here, the first thing I wuold check
as a litmus test would be " Are the True Orthodox on top of all these other deceptions?"
If they show sophistication in thinking and reasoning about the world around us,
I would deduce that analogously, they would be the most - truthful - of any sector of the Orthodox spectrum.

That is of course what we WANT : inquirers to say "Yeah, they know a fair amount about a lot of things, hence
I can take them seriously."

Whereas Fr John Whiteford or someone would not fit that criteria.