Interest rate: legitimate or not

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Jean-Serge
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Interest rate: legitimate or not

Post by Jean-Serge »

Icxypion wrote:

As for Usury, I am in complete agreement. It is interesting that, from what I hear, islamic countries have banks that are forbidden to loan on interest. Usury I have heard is not allowed in islamic countries, not even the national banks do this. So, obviously Banks can survive and the economy function well without the evil of usury.

They simply charge you interest rates in an alternative way! Instead of lending you 100 to buy a car and you'll pay back 110 (the interest), they buy the car and sell it to you 110. IN England, on king expelled the Jews and since interest was forbidden for Christians they established 0 interest rates BUT the loan was granted for a short period of time in which both parties knew it could not be paid back. Since the payment occurred later, the debtor paid penalties for being late and these penalties were in fact a way to hide interest rates. I know of no developed economy where there are no interest rates (official or disguises Anyway, economically speaking interest is logical: the one who lends money renounces to enjoy such money, interest is thus a compensation for this loss. Even in a no inflation situation, anyone would prefer to receive money today rather than the same amount of money one year later (even if it is sure to receive this future money: present money has more value than future money).The difference between both is the interest rate.

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Maria
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Re: Interest rate: legitimate or not

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Rationalization

Screwtape would be so proud.

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Re: Interest rate: legitimate or not

Post by jgress »

Can anyone show that the Orthodox church has traditionally banned interest? E.g. a Canon?

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Jean-Serge
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Re: Interest rate: legitimate or not

Post by Jean-Serge »

jgress wrote:

Can anyone show that the Orthodox church has traditionally banned interest? E.g. a Canon?

Canon 44 of the Apostles
Canon 10 of the 6th ecumenical council
Canon 17 of the 1st ecumenical council
Canon 5 of Carthage
Canon 14 of Saint Basil
Canon 29 of Saint Nikephoros the Confessor

Source : the Manual of Confession by Saint Nikodemos the Hagiorithe

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Re: Interest rate: legitimate or not

Post by jgress »

Thanks, Jean-Serge!

Apostolic canon 44 says a clergyman who charges interest should be deposed, but doesn't say anything about laymen.

Same for canon 10 of the 6th.

Same for 17 of the 1st.

Canon 5 of Carthage also specifies the penalty for clergy, though it does also claim that usury is reprehensible among laymen, though it mentions no penalty.

St Basil says a usurer that gives up his profits to the poor may become a clergymen, but he clearly says the gains are "unjust".

This essay provides some other citations of the Fathers against usury (scroll down half way):

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf214 ... .xxvi.html

However, the author makes clear that we have no canon enforcing a penalty on laymen, and there is some evidence that usury was sometimes treated more leniently than other kinds of theft, though most of the sources are Western (though pre-schism).

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Jean-Serge
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Re: Interest rate: legitimate or not

Post by Jean-Serge »

Yes it is canon 31 of Saint Nikephor (not 29 as I wrote) that says:

31. A Priest ought not to communicate those who charge interest, nor eat with them, if they persist in this transgression.

Source: here

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