What Books Are You Reading?

Chapter discussions and book or film reviews of Orthodox Christian and secular books that you have read and found helpful. All Forum Rules apply.


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Seraphim Reeves
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Apologies for Nietzche

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

I do have a hard time understanding why some "Christians" apologize for Nietzsche, and say things like "well he was just reacting to a distorted version of Christianity which he saw".

What I find even more entertaining is the way some of his secular admirers try to excuse him from any responsibility for the formation of Nazi ideology. Nietzche's views were anything but egalitarian (as, oddly enough, many of his contemporary admirers are), and it's hard to not see him as part of the same germanic cesspool which birthed "National Socialism". I remember back in the day reading lots of occult material, including literature put out by various "left hand" groups like the "Church of satan" and the "Temple of set", and the ideology underlying these groups is essentially Nietzchian, without any stops. In fact I had not familiarized myself with Nietzche's writings or thought at all prior to reading these satanic manifestos, and was surprised to find out later on that their entire world view was basically pages torn out of his writings.

Nietzche, for all of his "idol smashing", actually had something of a romantic affinity for the "classical" (greco-roman) world, or at least it's mythos. Understanding this, I think it's easy to see how his views clash, on a very fundamental level, with the "philosophy" the Holy Gospel offers us. The Cross, and all talk of meekness and long suffering (with the understanding that this current age is passing) were just as much a scandal to Nietzche as they were to the Areopagites (save St.Dionysius, obviously.)

Seraphim

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Seraphim Reeves
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Prayers for the dead

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

Thanks. That might be helpful. Sometimes I wonder how prayers could help someone who is already deceased; God already knows whether the person is righteous- how could the prayers of the living make him worthy of more than what God has already given him?

This is a good question, but it's really a much bigger question you're asking - since we could ask the same thing of any petitionary prayer. Certainly God knows what we need in all things, infinitely more so than we ourselves know our true needs. If one of our friends is ill, why pray for their health or spiritual well being - does not God know what they really need in such a case? Or praying for help with our moral failings...does not God know what we need in such cases?

Undoubtedly, there is no question as to whether or not the Lord knows what we need better than we do. Yet it is also beyond question that we're supposed to pray, and pray for these very types of things. So what's the resolution to this seeming contradiction?

The best I've ever heard, comes from St.Augustine (yes, the "heretical latin prelate" who some sinners like you and I insist on judging, yet who was/is regarded as a Father and Saint by many other Fathers and Saints of both the Eastern and Western Church), who taught that it has to do with God's salvific economy. If memory serves, what he taught was that there are many goods God desires to give us, but to give them outright to us would do more harm than good - it would be injurious to our humility, and would essentially turn us into moral/spiritual brats. Thus, God gives these goods in a mediated fashion - either through our own prayers, or most startlingly, only through the intercession of others on our behalf (in particular the Mother of God and the Saints).

Thus, God's children praying for each other is an excercise in humility. It is also evidence that true Christians are indeed "members" of Christ, for His "mediation" of grace is being worked out not only through His Person, but also through His members (which includes His Saints, and those in the process of becoming Saints.)

As for the issue of people being saved after death, the following verse comes to mind (it's one which I never found a satisfactory answer for in my RC days)...

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. (St.Matthew 12:31-32)

The following passage also comes to mind (which is often used as a defense of the idea of "purgatory")...

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. (St.Matthew 5:25-26)

Seraphim

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Started Mary Through The Centuries: Her Place In The History Of Culture by Jaroslav Pelikan a few days ago. I've never had an especially high admiration for Pelikan (the way most Orthodox seem to.) His work seems to me more "over-scholarly" (ie. trying hard to appear "objective" to everyone) than orthodox. I've read three books of his thus far, and while he has his very informative points, he's rarely witty or able to give an insight that just makes you sit back and say "ahhh" or sit dumbfounded and cross yourself in thanksgiving for being shown something. His works (Lutheran and otherwise) also have always seemed a bit too ecumenistic to me; this was most apparent in the only non-historical book of his I've read (his Melody of Theology: A Philosophical Dictionary).

Anyway, so I had two more books of his sitting on my shelves, one on Mary and one on Jesus, and decided to go through the Mary one. Thus far, it's been what I guess could be termed typical Pelikan, with a few more moments of awkwardness than normal. You'd think after writing 34 books (according to a bio note in the book) he'd have gotten his style down pat, but I guess there's always room to learn. :) He is thorough in his scholarship as always, and even-handed, if not particularly exciting; that's what I meant by typical Pelikan. He seems to digress more than necessary though, if indeed it is a digression at all; it's possible that some of the parts are merely getting to the point the "long way" around. In other words, it's sometimes hard to tell whether a particular passage is suppose to be related to the subject being discussed or not.

Towards the end of Chapter 1, for example, Pelikan--right out of the clear blue--starts talking about how the concept of faith is understood by the author of Hebrews. He then goes on to try and tie this belief in with the words of Jesus, Paul (who he apparently doesn't think wrote Hebrews), the Old Testament prophets, and the Protestant Reformers (!)... and then goes on to assert that the concept of "faith" in James seemed to stand against these other sources. He spent half a page on this long (seeming) digression that appeared out of the clear blue and was in no way connected with anything before it.

But perhaps this was not a digression, for Pelikan then goes on to say that in the Old Testament, in Paul, and in James: Abraham "played a major role" and was (quoting Romans) "the father of all them that believed" (p. 20). He then goes on to say that Mary might be the prime candidate for "the mother of all them that believe". It is only then that one realises that Pelikan means to connect what he is now saying about Mary to what he had said a couple pages earlier (as he discussed Jesus' words at the cross, "behold your mother," etc.).

So what was the half-page (IMO, inaccurate) description of various (supposed) positions concerning works and faith all about? Was this just a very clumsy way of connecting Abraham and Mary? Is Pelikan implying that Mary too will be a source of dispute? Is he implying that the Scriptural authors differed in their opinions and testimony on her? Why could Pelikan see the meshing together of obedience and faith in his discussion of Hebrews, but still not (apparently) see that James taught nothing different? Pelikan doesn't say that there was no difference and that the "frustration" was on the part of others, but himself seems to think that there is a difference between James and the others--albeit one that he doesn't think "detracts" from the fundamental importance of faith in the entire New Testament message. (I'm paraphrasing here; p. 20)

Ok, well I suppose that is enough for now. If things change drastically and my first impressions were incorrect, I'll be sure to say so. Still, I think I have a long read ahead of me!

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The Teachings of the Holy Orthodox Church

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

I am currently reading or rather struggling through The Teachings of the Holy Orthodox Church. It is good, but it is something you have to read slowly in small pieces. I was tested at 700 words per minute in high school and my tester thought I could go as fast as 2,100 with training, but I have barely made it 50 pages in! LOL! I did skip to the final chapter which was an addendum on Augustine. Good stuff and much easier reading. Maybe I will get done next year sometime, but do not count on it. :lol:

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Must be nice! I'm doing well if I trudge through normal (non theological) material at 200 words per minute :lol:

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Post by Mousethief »

Having just finished de Segur's Napolean's Invasion of Russia (or whatever the exact title is), I'm now reading The Body and the Blood which is an (all too sad) account of the dwindling population of Christians in the middle east. Lord, have mercy!

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Post by user_148 »

I am rereading "A Second Look at the Second Coming" by T. L. Frazier. It gives you a whole different outlook than the "Rapture" theory, which I heard ad nauseum as a Baptist.

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